DebateGate
General Category => Culture Vultures => Topic started by: Universe Prince on May 30, 2008, 06:10:59 PM
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So now we know who was in the coffin. But the big issue, that I have not seen anyone talk about, is what happened to the island. The orientation video spoke of the vault being used to make the rabbit time travel, and the implication is that whatever is behind the vault powers this effect in some fashion. So did the island move in space? Or just time?
Another question I have is about Sun. What is her agenda? Is she out to get Widmore or Ben? I guess it depends on who is the other person, besides her father, she blames for Jin's death.
What isn't make a lot of sense to me is if John Locke is the chosen man, why does Jack and pals leaving the island make everything on the island go bad? If I were to get all geeky about it I guess I would ask, why does the island want/need Jack? And if it really wants/needs him so badly, then why didn't it tell him so before he left?
Lastly, is the resurrected Christian Shepherd the devil? Or some form of evil? He claims to speak on Jacob's behalf, but does he? More importantly, what has he done to Claire? How did he convince Claire to leave her child behind? I'm guessing that what goes wrong on the island after Jack leaves has something to do with this specter of Christian Shepherd.
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I know some of you watch this show. Come on. Thoughts? Theories?
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More so.....questions
What did Sawyer say to Kate in the helicopter?
Are Juliette and Sawyer, and "the others" still on the island?
How did Locke get back to the mainland and how did he die?
Is Jin really dead? Claire?
Who does Sun believe is the 2nd person responsible for Jin's "death"?
Many many more, but 1st and foremost WHERE THE HELL DID THE ISLAND GO?
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Lost was once interesting to me, but the plot became murkier and murkier, sort of like the X Files, and stuff that is supposed to be related grew more and more confusing. Part of this was due to the writer's strike and constant reruns, and part of it seems to be a deliberate attempt of the writers to confuse the audience.
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I thought that they were going to push Hugo out of the helicopter, and I was wondering how he was going to be able to swim to the island. My friends and I have (I think I've mentioned this before) instituted a "Hurley Watch" to see how much bigger he gets before he gets off of the island.
The series finale was pretty good, I'm glad it wasn't a tearjerker like the finale of House. Now that House and Lost are over, and Jericho is canceled, I don't know what the hell to watch (Ax Men is over too).
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There's always Men in Trees ;D
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Now that House and Lost are over, and Jericho is canceled, I don't know what the hell to watch (Ax Men is over too).
Well, BSG has a few episodes left before hiatus. I've taken to watching Top Gear on BBC America. Robin Hood on BBC America isn't bad. SciFi has the most recent episodes of Doctor Who, and so far this season is better than the previous one. If you're at all interested in old movies, TCM has two noteworthy film festivals going on this month. One is films with Asian characters on Tuesday and Thursday nights and the other is Sophia Loren movies on Wednesday nights. There is, on TCM, a night of Leslie Caron films on June 7, a night of Walter Matthau movies on June 14, and also a night of male ensemble action films on June 21, which consists of Seven Samurai, The Professionals and The Dirty Dozen.
Anyway, back to Lost.
I feel certain that Jin is still alive. My guess is he would have been picked up by the boat Daniel was taking out to the freighter. Whether they got back to the island before it moved is another issue altogether.
Claire is, I think, not dead, but something ungood has happened to her.
Yes, everyone that was on the island when it was moved is still on it, except of course for Ben, and we know what happened to him.
The rumors are that what Sawyer said to Kate had something to do with his child, and that was, of course, what Kate was unable to tell Jack about.
Where the island went may not be as important as when. We are dealing with time travel in this show, after all.
I have to say, I don't find Lost confusing at all. Still a puzzle, yes, but that is because we don't have all the information yet. But confusing, no. But then I did not understand why so many people thought the first Mission: Impossible movie was difficult to follow either.
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My friend told me that last Friday, there were two alternate endings that aired on Good Morning America. One had Sawyer in the coffin (who I thought it was) and one was a total stranger. I don't know if this comes into play or not but I thought it was interesting.
I still can't figure out Hurley's numbers.
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I watched the whole season and want to watch the whole series from beginning to end and make a map of the whole show but I am soooooo worn out with the whole thing just opening more and more questions rather than clearing things up altogether or even partially.
I miss the numbers and hidden messages and stuff.
There is going to have to be a massive payoff at the end of this thing in order for me to feel like it was worth it. And it better not be "magic".
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There is going to have to be a massive payoff at the end of this thing in order for me to feel like it was worth it. And it better not be "magic".
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It seems to me that the writers have written themselves into a corner: there is no logical way out.
How could the weird difficulties in locating the island, the time differentials and the menacing homicidal black could be anything but magic?
Like the X-files, there is no cohesion. But with the X-files, there was no real need for cohesion, as each episode worked as an independent plot. With LOST, we are supposed to remember that John is missing a kidney because of this, that Hurley is cursed with good fortune because of that, and that Ben is weird as hell because of something else. In a word, we are lost and the writers of LOST are to blame for this.
I do not enjoy confusion in my life, and do not find it amusing or entertaining.
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How could the weird difficulties in locating the island, the time differentials and the menacing homicidal black could be anything but magic?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke, Third Law of Prediction.
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In a word, we are lost and the writers of LOST are to blame for this.
But there is a map. Lostpedia.com (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page). Actually, I don't find Lost confusing. Puzzling, yes. And there are certain items of information that would be helpful in understanding what is going on. But the puzzle is half the fun of the show.
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The puzzle would be half the fun if there were not way too many characters and the clues were things one could reason out. How, for example, are the number sequence and Hurley's lottery ticket number related. How could a defunct organization, or even one that was simply hidden accomplish that, AND get Hurley on that exact flight? And why?
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How, for example, are the number sequence and Hurley's lottery ticket number related.
They haven't explained that yet. They may not. I'm more interested in finding out about the four toed statue.
How could a defunct organization, or even one that was simply hidden accomplish that, AND get Hurley on that exact flight? And why?
You shouldn't assume that it was all done by the DHARMA group.
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Lost was once interesting to me, but the plot became murkier and murkier, sort of like the X Files, and stuff that is supposed to be related grew more and more confusing. Part of this was due to the writer's strike and constant reruns, and part of it seems to be a deliberate attempt of the writers to confuse the audience.
Or part of it is because the writers can't get out of the Muck/Murk.
This show is bordering on "Da' Plane" Island of the 70's imo.
Sexy men ..yep you bet. But plot lines? Confusing, for certain.
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How could a defunct organization, or even one that was simply hidden accomplish that, AND get Hurley on that exact flight? And why?
You shouldn't assume that it was all done by the DHARMA group.
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No matter what I assume, how could a lottery ticket number issued many years after the computer password (and other coincidental reoccurences of this long number) be the same? This is against every aspect of the laws of probability.
It seems to me that LOST has "jumped the shark", and is no longer anything that can be taken seriously.
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Regarding LOST:
During the heyday of the show, I'd check out the forums to get ideas on what could potentially be happening and to review the episodes after watching them.
The show is ground-breaking because it mimics a movie format of opening with the inciting event and throwing the viewer into the thick of things along with the characters. Very little if anything is revealed to the viewer without it being known by the characters. (For instance, we never see the smoke just hanging out in its lair plotting out how to chase down Mr. Eko. It just happens.)
Also, the non-linear story-telling is really hard for television audiences who (present company excluded obviously) tend to forget week to week who is whose friend or enemy and who really aren't interested in their adventure shows having some kind of deep meaning.
The show mixes drama, comedy, mystery, adventure in a sort of fun ride sort of presentation (OMG, look at that giant foot with four toes!) but the writers (for whatever reasons) have steadfastly refused to just hand over answers (I doubt we'll ever see an episode of Benjamin Linus just sitting in front of the cross-legged castaways with their chins on their fists, smiling as he recounts the history of the island from it's four-toed alien founders to the day the Oceaniac 8 returned).
It annoys me that they never finish anything. It has this sort of spinning out and out like my music professor used to describe Baroque music. The story is very convoluted. So much so that the wife and I will have our memories sparked during episodes and one of us will whistfully state, "Aaaawww, remember when we didn't know who Desmond was and he was this wild-eyed guy in the hatch who listened to Mama Cass and rode his exercycle?"
And there are gaping holes and gigantic question marks in the whole story. What the hell with that statue foot? Did the computer actually stop the effect that happened when Locke destroyed said computer or was that a co-incidental "moving" of the island? How did Locke's "father" get to the island? Just on and on, and I really don't know how they are going to tie all these things up.
And if they do tie them up, will it satisfy?
There are intangible (so to speak) facets of the show that I love. I don't care how unlikely the coincidences are, I love it that Desmond saw Charlie playing guitar on the street. I love it that Jack is Aaron's uncle. I love that the one chick who was a tailie and was in love with Hurley on the island may have actually been in the boobyhatch with him.
I love the interconnectivity of the show.
Even more, I love the emotional payoffs. The only one from the season finale a coupleof weeks ago that worked (and not to the level that I think it should have) was the reunion of Desmond and Pinay (I know her name is Penny/Penelope but I love how Desmond says it and so...). That scene could have been really even more powerful if the director had had Desmond have a complete wild-eyed breakdown then sucked it up and been the "man" that he had been trying to be for Penny.
And the whole thing with Sun and Jin, I just didn't buy. A) I don't think for a second that he nor Michael are actually dead. Michael had been shown trying to kill himself before only to see the gun misfire. So, when Jack's dad appears and says, "You can go now, Michael," I'm thinking that he was magically transported to the island or he was luckily blown into the air whilst holding hands with Jin and they landed on a floating mattress from the boat which was then blown to the island.
My understanding is they filmed several versions of the ending with different people in the coffin at the end. If they did, it was because they didn't know which of the different threads they were going to weave in. I doubt it was because they wanted it to be a secret.
Anyhoo, that's my two-cents worth.
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I don't mind complex and convoluted plots. I cannot stand complexity for the sake of complexity.
As far as finishing plot lines, I think B5 did it well. There was one story arc that spanned the 5 years, and several story arcs that spanned two or three seasons, and numerous story arcs that spanned multiple episodes. And, of course, each episode also had it's own plot line.
But you got to see the completion of various plot lines before new ones were started...
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The thing I worry about with the long story arcs is that I will not spot the end.
I have this nagging fear that along the way, little things have happened that answer some big question and I just completely missed it. I worry that something totally unrelated, like a look or a phrase, will somehow explain that the smoke is the combined souls of the people who have died to protect the island in its long existence and I will just look at the wife and say, "what's with that look he just gave her?". LOL
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I'm biased, being very much a fan, but I confess I don't quite get all the nitpicking that goes on with Lost. The show is not perfect, by any means, but by golly the show is brilliant. The story telling has faltered a couple of times, but overall it has averaged a higher level of quality and skill than most television shows.
If there is one thing I have learned from shows like this and Babylon 5 is that even if they do something I don't like right off, if I trust the people who brought me this far, usually the pay off is well worth it. And with Lost, we know they are starting wrap things up. We even have some idea how many hours of storytelling are left. It's been a good ride so far, and I just can't say enough about a show with the power to keep me guessing. Lost makes bold moves, and I won't say I'm without concern that the wrap up won't be satisfying, but the Lost folks have made the show a damn good ride so far, and I want to know how it ends.
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concur 100%, Prince
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oh yeah babylon5
it was slow going for me
but I stuck it out and at the 5th season almost every episode refers to the past seasons
me and my nephew were going crazy trying to recall past scene to the show.
not the one
not the one
3 years later it finally made sense.
damn thats cruel
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not the one
not the one
3 years later it finally made sense.
damn thats cruel
Actually, the one that got me was the use of alien healing device that was used in what looked like a mostly filler episode in season one of B5. And then it got used later to save Ivanova, and holy crap if that didn't just tear me right up inside. Excellent story telling.
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Actually, the one that got me was the use of alien healing device that was used in what looked like a mostly filler episode in season one of B5. And then it got used later to save Ivanova, and holy crap if that didn't just tear me right up inside. Excellent story telling.
The other part of that original episode ("The Quality of Mercy") was the introduction of the ability of Minbari to lie in order to save face, which also became important later on. Also, we're introduced to mind wiping ("death of personality") as a punishment, which is also used later on in the series. And the humor part of that episode, also referenced several times later on, was the discussion about male Centauri genitalia.
Oh yeah, Garibaldi was also saved by the alien healing machine in season 2.
There are lots of interconnected points between episodes.
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I remember that
june lockhart(lost in space) was in it.
I may have to do a marathon session now
I`m glad netflix has them(last time i checked)
does anybody knows what happened after crusade?
did they finally find a cure?
or is that story still in limbo?
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did they finally find a cure?
or is that story still in limbo?
They had to have. One of the last B5 episodes was set 20+ years later on Earth. As were two of the movies.