DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on November 06, 2006, 10:58:47 AM
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http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/06/america/LA_POL_Nicaragua_Ortega_Chronology.php
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4313005.html
http://www.forbes.com/business/manufacturing/feeds/ap/2006/11/06/ap3147525.html
(http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=F8R4xlDwzPsJ&imgurl=seattletimes.nwsource.)
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It's a strange world.
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So sad. It will be interesting to track this over the next few years...
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THis is neither strange nor sad.
The foirst time Ortega lost, it was because that foul old bastard Reagan told the people of Nigaragua that he would have his ratwing goons continue killing them unless they elected Violeta Chamorro.
Three terms of ratwingers have not solved most Nicaraguans' problems. Only Haiti is poorer than Nicaragua.
Now the people of Nicaragua know that Juniorbush has placed our country's balls in a vise in Iraq and he is utterly powerless to prevent the Nicaraguans from electing whomever they damn well choose.
I say more power to them.
Viva Ortega! Muera Bush! Que chingue mucho a su arrugada abuela el pendejo Cheney!
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Forgot about the spelling checker again, XO?
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That's the best you can do, Bozo?
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"Three terms of ratwingers have not solved most Nicaraguans' problems. Only Haiti is poorer than Nicaragua."
Well, they could implement Republican practices such as developing a tourist industry and therefore boosting their economy. Belize, a neighbor, has done this and is much more economically successful now than even a decade ago.
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That's the best you can do, Bozo?
Hey, seems like it's one of your trademarks. Afraid if someone else does the same thing as you?
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Hey, seems like it's one of your trademarks. Afraid if someone else does the same thing as you?
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Afraid?
Do you sense that I am AFRAID of YOU?
Your sensors need work.
Should I not expect your answers to be better than mine?
Do you not aspire to something beyond the average?
Being my copycat seems to be beneath your wit and erudition as well, and yet, you copy.
Is is not good advice to tell Plane - or anyone - that he should not be anything he cannot spell?
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Should I not expect your answers to be better than mine?
Should I not expect you to avoid being pedantic?
Do you not aspire to something beyond the average?
Since I qualify to be a member of Prometheus, I don't have any concerns.
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http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/06/america/LA_POL_Nicaragua_Ortega_Chronology.php
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4313005.html
http://www.forbes.com/business/manufacturing/feeds/ap/2006/11/06/ap3147525.html
(http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=F8R4xlDwzPsJ&imgurl=seattletimes.nwsource.)
You guys love Democracy only until you cant put "the fix" in.
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http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/06/america/LA_POL_Nicaragua_Ortega_Chronology.php
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4313005.html
http://www.forbes.com/business/manufacturing/feeds/ap/2006/11/06/ap3147525.html
(http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=F8R4xlDwzPsJ&imgurl=seattletimes.nwsource.)
You guys love Democracy only until you cant put "the fix" in.
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This is so?
I think that to be true to our creed we have to accept the result of democracy whether we like it or hate it.
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Since I qualify to be a member of Prometheus, I don't have any concerns.
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Who the eff is Prometheus, and why should this impress me?
i am thus far entirely unimpressed by you or Prometheus
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I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
-Mark Twain
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
-Mark Twain
I read the "Unabridged Short Storys of Mark Twain" When I was twelve , I have yet to recover from the injury.
-Plane talker
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Who the eff is Prometheus, and why should this impress me?
Why would you think that I'm trying to impress you? You are not worth impressing.
i am thus far entirely unimpressed by you or Prometheus
So? And who are you that it matters if you're impressed?
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Get hosed.
And take your damned Prometheus with you.
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Get hosed.
And take your damned Prometheus with you.
No.
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"Is is not good advice to tell Plane - or anyone - that he should not be anything he cannot spell?"
If I were so limited I could never be an ignoramus.
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Well, they could implement Republican practices such as developing a tourist industry and therefore boosting their economy. Belize, a neighbor, has done this and is much more economically successful now than even a decade ago.
That is a very poor comparison Plane.
Belize might be a neighbor, but their situation is far from similar. Belize did not implement a "Republican practice" but was a colony of the United Kingdom and even after independence (which did not occur until the late 70's or early 80's) is still protected by the UK even today. Therefore Belize did not experience the difficulties of American incursion into her political affairs, though she did have the problem of the American-funded Guatemalan right-wing death squads crossing its borders during the 1970's (Guatemala claims a section of Belize in a treaty dispute concerning a road that was never constructed dating back a hundred years).
Nicaragua on the other hand was fully vested in the U.S.-backed dictatorship of Anastasio Somoza whose "National Guard" enjoyed such fine pleasures as murdering villagers (including livestock) as well as stealing money meant to rebuild Managua after the 1974 Earthquake. Instead of rebuilding the city, they decided to increase their personal finances. Hey, "fuck the peasants" when you can get wealthy yourself. After all Somoza's family owned most of the property in Nicaragua. There was more private property ownership when the Sandinista's took power (though they were labeled communists).
So, pardon me if I don't buy into the whole concept of the Nicaragua should be like Belize. It is historically a horrible comparison. Nicaragua did what they could with what they had. In that sense XO is right. Had Reagan left them alone and not engaged in his own state-supported terrorism the nation would have been far better off.
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You cannot compare Belize and Nicaragua. Belize has no more than 160,000 people. Nicaragua has about 5 million. Belize was never controlled by the US, and never had a dictator like the Somozas and Sacasty families that owned nearly everything that was not owned by foreigners.
Belize has a small tourist industry that is popular with rich Americans in the Cays because in Belize they speak English. The Reef off Belize iis second only to Australia's Great Barrier Reef in size. In Belize, the weather is dry during US vacation seasons: On the Atlantic coast of Nicaragua, it rains and rains and rains some more.
A small tourist industry can have an impact on a small population. Nicaragua doesn't have much to offer the average American tourist, who loves to be pampered.
Reagan screwed Nicaragua for a generation. Between the 1977 Managua earthquake and Reagan's goons, the country was in awful shape.
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Very interesting and informative posts, JS and XO. Weak on particulars, I resort to generalities to hold out hope for (that is, to refrain from condemning) Nicarauga's new government. As an abstract principle, guided solely by the wisdom of the populace and the freedom they wield, a democratic-socialist government can be viewed as the perennial good idea in search of a sound practice. This hope is not trumped by the experience in communist-totalitarian countries any more than Bush-style corporatism is a necessary precursor to fascist-style dictatorship.
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"Three terms of ratwingers have not solved most Nicaraguans' problems. Only Haiti is poorer than Nicaragua."
Well, they could implement Republican practices such as developing a tourist industry and therefore boosting their economy. Belize, a neighbor, has done this and is much more economically successful now than even a decade ago.
Is the Professors writeing style something like mine?
I would be flattered if so , my education is not as well ordered .
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The point being postulated is that Nicaragua could have and/or can now BEGIN to attract tourists as its neighbros such as Belize, Guatemala, etc. have done. This can bolster their economy. All this feldercarb concerning their governmental problems still is not an excuse to have developed some tourist industry. Excuses only cover for so long. People needs JOBS. Heck, Cuba even has a decent tourism industry!
Anyway, the point is that nations do have choices to make and sometimes they make poor ones. Nicaragua could have begun, at least, some initiatives in this arena years ago.
Oh, I mentioned Belize, not Plane.
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Apologies Plane, that was my mistake.
Professor, Nicaragua began investing in tourism around 1990. The tourism sector constitutes about 10% of the Nicaraguan economy, so don't act as if they haven't even thought of the idea. You have to remember that this nation was completely backward when the Sandinistas won the revolution in 1979. They took an absolutely uneducated population and taught them how to read. They set up a public health system from the ground up, because Somoza simply did not have one. Meanwhile, they also fought a civil war with the Contras, who were former "National Guard" members who based themselves in Honduras and took American money and made revenue from drug sales. They slaughtered rural villagers and generally spread chaos. They were terrorists.
So yeah, it was a bit difficult to get Scott and Tammi from the suburbs to plan a trip to the scenic beaches of Nicaragua when they might be killed!
It isn't excuses, it is reality. I mean, are you demanding that Afghanistan and Iraq start to focus on their tourism industry? Angola? Somalia? DR Congo? Give Nicaragua time and the right leadership and they will be well on their way. It will help if the United States can keep out of their business as well. Reagan destroyed enough lives without any new leaders having to destroy any more.