DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 12:33:19 PM

Title: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 12:33:19 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/29/drill-baby-drill-champion_n_558014.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/29/drill-baby-drill-champion_n_558014.html)

Not a word on the subject from either Uncle Tom (a.k.a. "Michael") Steele or from the Pitbull with Lipstick.  Nada.  They blog on lots of other things, just not on this one.  Silent Night.  The Silence of the Lambs.  Anything and everything.  Everything and nothing.  On the Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico . . . nichts.  Rien.  Nuffin.

Hilarious.  Sad, of course, but hilarious nonetheless.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on April 30, 2010, 01:21:27 PM
How hypocritical coming from the king of deafening silence, on a plethora of other issues
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on April 30, 2010, 01:32:24 PM
You gotta be kidding?

I say DRILL BABY DRILL!

If mankind gave up every time a rare
accident happened we'd still be living caves.

I guess we should not rebuild New Orleans
because every 50-100 years a disaster strikes?

Freaking joke!

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: kimba1 on April 30, 2010, 01:53:53 PM
I guess we should not rebuild New Orleans
because every 50-100 years a disaster strikes?


actually maybe thay shouldn`t
I remember one news spot which a reporter was from there and she talked about how many of her relatives died from the previous flood.

mean living there will risk your family evey generation and don`t forget the massive property damage.

but then I live in earthquake country.

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 02:24:08 PM
New Orleans can be rebuilt, with proper precautions and MONEY SPENT, there is no reason why the city has to be flooded again.  Except of course "saving taxpayer dollars."

Drilling for oil?  It's INEVITABLE that another spill will occur.  It's the nature of the beast.  Nobody had to have that undersea oil anyway.  This insanity has to stop somewhere.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: kimba1 on April 30, 2010, 02:29:30 PM
I was under the impression the undersea oil is limited . meaning it`s better to be left alone until a serious shortage has occured.

is this data still correct?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
I thought all oil was limited in the sense that it takes millions of years to form the stuff.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: kimba1 on April 30, 2010, 02:45:19 PM
I meant how much that can be extracted

I leanred this from some congresswoman talking about the economics of oil drilling.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on April 30, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
I am thinking "Spill, baby, spill, is not so good a slogan.

I seemed to me that Palin saying "Drill, baby, drill" sounded rather sexual, coming from a woman.

===================================
It is impossible to get ALL the oil from any well. They can get maybe 65% out of most wells. Thet can inject seawater, or steam and cause the heavier oil to come out, for example.

There is a cost factor involved, as with all minerals: if they cost more to extract than they are worth, it is better to just leave them where they are.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Kramer on April 30, 2010, 03:08:52 PM
drill baby drill - yeah drill drill drill go for it!!! I love the smell of exhaust fumes in the morning. plus what the heck, oil seeps into the oceans naturally all the time...
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: kimba1 on April 30, 2010, 03:24:47 PM
makes sense
a sea platform would definately cost more than a regular land system.

I know someone whose family land has oil , but it`s too deep to be cost effective to drill.

but when gas hit $4 it finally got drilled.

oil is a waiting game in cost of feul and technology to help lower overhead
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on April 30, 2010, 03:55:58 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/obama-opens-offshore-drilling-oil-gas-exploration/story?id=10249811 (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/obama-opens-offshore-drilling-oil-gas-exploration/story?id=10249811)

Says Uncle Tobama:

"But the bottom line is this: Given our energy needs, in order to sustain economic growth, produce jobs and keep our businesses competitive, we're going to need to harness traditional sources of fuel even as we ramp up production of new sources of renewable, homegrown energy."
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: kimba1 on April 30, 2010, 05:31:05 PM
energy is tricky
thiers too much politics involved to get things running

ex. coal

as you know it`s the primary economy of w. virginia so the chance of getting a windmill plant is possibly life threatening.
meaning it takes more than just having a cheap source of energy.

the crazy one is corn.
how people didn`t see it would effect our agri-economy is amazing.I didn`t see it.

talk about unforseen risk factors
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on April 30, 2010, 05:43:03 PM
I don't think its as tricky as you think Kimba, though its great political theater.  How many times have we heard that one of the biggest reasons we don't start any offshore or ANWR drilling is that "it'll take 10+years before we actually see any oil"?  And how long has that been being said?  How about 20+years.  Meaning we could have had a solid 10+years of actual tangible domestic oil, with the direct result of a a decrease dependence on foreign sources, decrease prices at the pump, decrease prices for all families to take trips, be it by car or plane, etc.

All the while alternative sources, could have been being worked on.  But as you could gather from Tee's tone, the hard core leftists & fanatical enviromentalists don't want us not to use any oil, thus you have the above rhetoric employed at every campaign stump when the notion of new offshore or ANWR drilling is brought up, as well as the politicalization of this incident in the gulf as some supposed smoking gun to why we can't/shouldn't. 
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 05:51:39 PM
<<drill baby drill - yeah drill drill drill go for it!!! I love the smell of exhaust fumes in the morning. plus what the heck, oil seeps into the oceans naturally all the time...>>

Funny how with all that "natural seeping" nobody had to go into emergency mode to save the beaches, the wildlife or the food sources such as the oyster beds, until this particular rig exploded.   Looks like there's a difference between a piss in the ocean and a damburst.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on April 30, 2010, 06:06:51 PM
ya know, people wouldn't slip in bathtubs if there weren't bathtubs.

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: kimba1 on April 30, 2010, 06:10:28 PM
what`s confusing about offshore oiling is the reason to not to drill.
that congress women I mention gave to me a very logical reason ,but to the enviromental minded person this would never be used and sound highly offense-madness

she simply stated california has a 1 billion dollar tourist industry and a 1 billion dollar fishing industry.
the maximun amount of predicted money produce from that rig is $200mil.
and that rig will risk those 2 industries and then she brought up ,that oil isn`t going anywhere so it should be used as a reserve site incase of emergency.

I thought it made sense, but I really got some serious negative responses from that.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Kramer on April 30, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
<<drill baby drill - yeah drill drill drill go for it!!! I love the smell of exhaust fumes in the morning. plus what the heck, oil seeps into the oceans naturally all the time...>>

Funny how with all that "natural seeping" nobody had to go into emergency mode to save the beaches, the wildlife or the food sources such as the oyster beds, until this particular rig exploded.   Looks like there's a difference between a piss in the ocean and a damburst.

The rig probably 'exploded' because Obama had previously said drill baby drill and so he had it blown up in order to back-peddle on his promise. In the meantime he is moving about as fast as Bush did with Katrina, but sense you like to eat his shit I'm sure you are OK with his inaction.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 07:13:28 PM
<<ya know, people wouldn't slip in bathtubs if there weren't bathtubs. >>

Wouldn't fall on sidewalks if there were no sidewalks.  Wouldn't get kicked in the head by horses if there were no horses.  I think yer on ta somethin, BT.

Whaddaya think is gonna cost more to fix, the bathtub slip & fall, or the oil leak?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Kramer on April 30, 2010, 07:15:29 PM
<<ya know, people wouldn't slip in bathtubs if there weren't bathtubs. >>

Wouldn't fall on sidewalks if there were no sidewalks.  Wouldn't get kicked in the head by horses if there were no horses.  I think yer on ta somethin, BT.

Whaddaya think is gonna cost more to fix, the bathtub slip & fall, or the oil leak?

Send the bill to BP
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on April 30, 2010, 07:21:07 PM
<<ya know, people wouldn't slip in bathtubs if there weren't bathtubs. >>

Wouldn't fall on sidewalks if there were no sidewalks.  Wouldn't get kicked in the head by horses if there were no horses.  I think yer on ta somethin, BT.  Whaddaya think is gonna cost more to fix, the bathtub slip & fall, or the oil leak?

The slip & fall from the bathtub could lead to a traumatic brain injury, coma, or worse.  The "cost" to that person, in such a case, and to their family is likely incalculable
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Kramer on April 30, 2010, 07:31:44 PM
<<ya know, people wouldn't slip in bathtubs if there weren't bathtubs. >>

Wouldn't fall on sidewalks if there were no sidewalks.  Wouldn't get kicked in the head by horses if there were no horses.  I think yer on ta somethin, BT.  Whaddaya think is gonna cost more to fix, the bathtub slip & fall, or the oil leak?

The slip & fall from the oil leak could lead to a traumatic brain injury, coma, or worse.  The "cost" to that person, in such a case, and to their family is likely incalculable

the dead birds and sea life are a tragedy but since Mike is OK with baby seal slaughters then dead birds are no biggy.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 07:57:17 PM
<<the dead birds and sea life are a tragedy but since Mike is OK with baby seal slaughters then dead birds are no biggy.>>

The dead birds and sea life, the destruction of future generations of them through the destruction of the habitats and the ruin of the beaches and the fishing industry kind of all add up to something bigger than a seal hunt.  People have hunted seals for centuries and the life of the herd goes on.

How the hell  this kind of tragedy equates to bathtub and sidewalk injuries is something of a mystery to me.  People will always slip and fall, on bathtub bottoms, sidewalks or dance floors.  That's going to happen as long as there are people to walk, run, jump or dance and surfaces to walk, run, jump or dance on.  Drilling under the sea for oil is a greed-driven, selfish and self-indulgent kind of specific behaviour geared to a need for cheap gasoline that would not exist with more stringent controls over the wasteful use of energy.  Moreover, it virtually guarantees spills in a way that using a bathtub does not guarantee having a bathtub accident.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Kramer on April 30, 2010, 08:07:08 PM
<<the dead birds and sea life are a tragedy but since Mike is OK with baby seal slaughters then dead birds are no biggy.>>

The dead birds and sea life, the destruction of future generations of them through the destruction of the habitats and the ruin of the beaches and the fishing industry kind of all add up to something bigger than a seal hunt.  People have hunted seals for centuries and the life of the herd goes on.

How the hell  this kind of tragedy equates to bathtub and sidewalk injuries is something of a mystery to me.  People will always slip and fall, on bathtub bottoms, sidewalks or dance floors.  That's going to happen as long as there are people to walk, run, jump or dance and surfaces to walk, run, jump or dance on.  Drilling under the sea for oil is a greed-driven, selfish and self-indulgent kind of specific behaviour geared to a need for cheap gasoline that would not exist with more stringent controls over the wasteful use of energy.  Moreover, it virtually guarantees spills in a way that using a bathtub does not guarantee having a bathtub accident.

Look at what Global Warming did to NO with Katrina. Shit happens Mikey -- Americans are tough. Whilst you cry about it we are mobilizing under the leadership of Obama. Have e no fear Mikey -- Obama is here!!!!!!!!!!! That in it of itself is enough to make me feel secure just knowing Barry is steering the rescue ship. Hell, Barry should head to the Gulf and walk right across that oil slick to show us all how the Messiah makes it happen.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Plane on April 30, 2010, 09:03:47 PM
From CNN's Charles Riley

 
Sarah Palin took to Facebook on Friday to comment on the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
(CNN) - As thousands of barrels of oil leak into the Gulf of Mexico, and a massive oil slick approaches the Louisiana coast, Sarah Palin weighed in on the environmental nightmare.

In a Friday post on her Facebook page, the former Alaska governor expressed shock and sadness for the 11 men presumed dead from the April 20 oil rig explosion. And Palin said that her "heart breaks" for Louisiana's coastal residents who are "facing fears of the unknown impacts of the oil spill."

She also called for increased government accountability in the oil industry, saying that while accidents will always happen, companies "must be held accountable."

"It is inexcusable for any oil company to not invest in preventative measures," Palin wrote, while also mentioned her experience as an oil and gas regulator.

But Palin is standing by the rally cry she helped popularize during the 2008 presidential campaign.

"I repeat the slogan 'drill here, drill now' not out of naiveté or disregard for the tragic consequences of oil spills – my family and my state and I know firsthand those consequences," Palin wrote. "ncreased domestic oil production will make us a more secure, prosperous, and peaceful nation."


Palin has long said that energy independence and security are linked, an argument she repeated Friday.

"We need oil, and if we don't drill for it here, we have to purchase it from countries that not only do not like America and can use energy purchases as a weapon against us, but also do not have the oversight that America has."


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/30/palin-weighs-in-on-louisiana-oil-spill/?fbid=UtHyQ5nqket (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/30/palin-weighs-in-on-louisiana-oil-spill/?fbid=UtHyQ5nqket)
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on April 30, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
And she tweeted about it earlier in the week.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Plane on April 30, 2010, 09:27:38 PM
And she tweeted about it earlier in the week.


Any idea how many follow her twitter?

Odbviously the origionator of this thread isn't , as I admit neither am I.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 09:28:42 PM
Not bad damage control.  I see that she ran away from "Drill, baby, drill," which somehow metamorphosed into "Drill here, drill now."   I have to admit she made a reasonable effort there, a lot less crazy than her earlier incarnations.  Probably never hear "Drill, baby, drill" from her again.  You betcha!!!
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on April 30, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
Not sure if "drill baby drill" was ever her cry. Do you have a direct quote of her saying that, other than correcting Biden during the VP debates?

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on April 30, 2010, 09:57:55 PM
Any idea how many follow her twitter?

According to Twitter, as of a few minutes ago, 140,053.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Plane on April 30, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
Any idea how many follow her twitter?

According to Twitter, as of a few minutes ago, 140,053.


Hmmmmm....

That is a tenth of what I would have guessed.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on April 30, 2010, 10:07:26 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill,_baby,_drill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill,_baby,_drill)

Well, you're right about Palin first using "Drill, baby, drill" to correct Biden, or rather Biden's parody of McCain, during a VP debate in the 2008 campaign, but the slogan has an interesting and rather bizarre back-story as an unused slogan owned by the American Dental Association and shelved after a disastrous trial run in Oregon some years earlier.  

Wikipedia traced the format back to black activists' "Burn, baby, burn!" cry during the race riots of the 1960s.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 02, 2010, 02:01:02 PM
Not sure if "drill baby drill" was ever her cry. Do you have a direct quote of her saying that, other than correcting Biden during the VP debates?

==============================
It was what she hollered at the GOP Convention, and at a number of other venues. Google it and you will find it.

Or here it is:
Palin’s Policy: Drill, Baby, Drill


By Jeffrey Ball WSJ, Sept 8, 2008.

Among many applause lines from the speakers at the Republican convention last night, one stood out: Drill, baby, drill.

Michael Steele, the former lieutenant governor of Maryland, launched the line, prompting howls of approval from the crowd. Rudolph Guiliani, the former New York mayor, repeated it, if almost as an afterthought. And Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, echoed the sentiment, to even louder cheers of the crowd.

Gov. Palin’s position on energy is worth parsing, because it shows what a political minefield the subject is likely to become this election season.

On the one hand, the Alaska governor cited as one of her main political bona fides having stood up to oil interests who, she said, had been largely running her state when she assumed office. Her tough anti-Big-Oil talk is sure to appeal to Main Street at a time when gasoline is still selling in some parts of the country for near $4 a gallon.

On the other hand, Gov. Palin argued forcefully, as a product herself of the U.S. oil patch, that the country should let the drill bits fly. “We Americans need to produce more of our own oil and gas,” she said. “And take it from a gal who knows the North Slope of Alaska: we’ve got lots of both.

She continued: “Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America’s energy problems — as if we all didn’t know that already. But the fact that drilling won’t solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all.”

Looking on approvingly was Gov. Palin’s husband, Todd, himself an oil-industry employee.

Those two ideas needn’t be contradictory. Americans largely blame the oil industry for today’s high prices at the pump, and it stands to reason that one way to bring prices down is to increase the supply of domestic oil. The fact that most studies attribute today’s oil prices to broader market dynamics, and say increasing U.S. drilling won’t meaningfully affect pump prices for years, could prove just an asterisk in this political argument.

What may be more interesting to watch is how Big Oil fares this fall. Is it the evil force whose lobbyists need to be kept from squeezing the system? Or is it the band of honest American workers eager for the chance to help pull the country out of its energy crunch?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 02, 2010, 02:04:29 PM
Interesting that the article you present to prove that she said "drill, baby, drill" does not quote her as saying that line.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on May 02, 2010, 03:24:45 PM
ouch
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 02, 2010, 05:16:31 PM
However, she DID say it, and in that speech, hence the use of the slogan in the title of the article
. I heard her say it. She repeated it at least two other times, both on the PBS news.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 02, 2010, 05:19:20 PM
I think the nit-picker needs to come back to the theme of this thread, basically that whoever said it first, it was unabashedly adopted by Palin as part of her campaign and it doesn't seem all that likely that we're ever going to hear that moronic chant from her ever again.  She'll back-pedal from it as far and as fast as she can.  She'll still call for the same reckless exploitation, only this time wrapped in the language of caution and prudence and respect for the environment.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 02, 2010, 05:21:47 PM
Palin is fond of dumb slogans. The latest is "Don't retreat, reload".

But the problem is that when you look stupid, it is rarely due to a lack of ammo.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 02, 2010, 05:25:46 PM
Dumb slogans are probably the only thing she can remember.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 02, 2010, 05:36:28 PM
I am pretty sure someone writes this stuff for her. But it is also true that a dumb slogan is also easier for a follower to remember and chant at every opportunity. Kramer LOVES dumb slogans. "I like Ike" was a favorite of mine, when I was nine. Not as sophisticated as "Catch the Wave" or "For those who think young", but superior to the ditty sung by Bucky Beaver, who peddled Ipana toothpaste.

I recall hearing the same public service announcement for several years:

Get in the know, Joe,
Don't be a schmoe, Joe,
Religion and race,
Just don't fit in this place.

I think "schmoe" was the first Yiddish word I ever learned. One heard no Yiddish in Kansas City, MO, at least not where we lived.

I liked Ike also because we visited his boyhood home in Abeline, KS. We might have visited Stevenson's home had there been mountains on the other side of Illinois.

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 02, 2010, 05:36:36 PM
However, she DID say it, and in that speech, hence the use of the slogan in the title of the article
. I heard her say it.

Courtesy of the HufPo, here is the text of Palin's GOP Convention Speech (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/sarah-palin-rnc-conventio_n_123703.html). Also included at the link is a video of her giving the speech. She never says "drill, baby, drill".

I think you were imagining things when you heard her say it.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 02, 2010, 05:38:21 PM
But it is also true that a dumb slogan is also easier for a follower to remember and chant at every opportunity.

What does it mean when an opponent attributes a dumb slogan that was never said by the person? That the opponent is dumb?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 02, 2010, 05:40:41 PM
But she DID say it, she said it several times on several occasions. The audience chanted it. They ate it up!
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Universe Prince on May 02, 2010, 05:43:51 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill,_baby,_drill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill,_baby,_drill)
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 02, 2010, 05:46:54 PM
But she DID say it, she said it several times on several occasions. The audience chanted it. They ate it up!

According to you, she said it in her speech at the GOP Convention and you even claim to have heard her say it in her speech. However, according to the HufPo, she didn't say it and they have the video to prove it. Is the HufPo now a member of the "vast right wing conspiracy"?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 02, 2010, 06:06:26 PM
I also heard and saw her say "Drill Baby Drill."  Obviously the Hufpo vid has been edited or there was another occasion.   The fact is, I thought that was HER slogan, so it might be that she spoke it on some occasion when Biden wasn't also present.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 02, 2010, 06:17:03 PM
"I remember it, and I can't be wrong, so obviously a video of the event that shows I'm wrong has been professionally edited."
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 02, 2010, 11:51:47 PM
<<"I remember it, and I can't be wrong, so obviously a video of the event that shows I'm wrong has been professionally edited.">>

Professionally or otherwise edited, yes of course, that is one possibility and the other is that you are referencing a video of one event and at another event (the video of which is not seen now) she said what I recall seeing her say.

Even someone as obviously logic-challenged as yourself should have been able to figure that one out.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 12:08:41 AM
Even someone as obviously logic-challenged as yourself should have been able to figure that one out.

XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech.

The only "logic challenged" around here are those who make a claim, then when it's proven to be wrong, claim that they're right anyway and the evidence was tampered with. Or that they're right even though the evidence disagrees with them.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on May 03, 2010, 12:21:06 AM
Must fit template
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 01:20:14 AM
<<XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech.>>

Doesn't matter one God-damned bit where XO saw or thought he saw the speech.  He saw it somewhere and I saw it somewhere.

If the tape of the event did not show what XO remembered, it is possible the tape you saw was altered.  If unaltered the tape YOU saw could have been of another event accidentally or otherwise misattributed to the convention.  Another possibility is that XO saw Palin say the words - - as did I - - but was wrong in describing the venue.  ANY of those explanations are simple and they are adequate explanations for both XO and myself being correct in remembering Palin as uttering those words.

<<The only "logic challenged" around here are those who make a claim, then when it's proven to be wrong, claim that they're right anyway and the evidence was tampered with.>>

You're making another logical error in assuming that XO is "proven to be wrong" simply because of a tape that you produce that doesn't show what he recalls.  You have at most some evidence that XO may be wrong, but certainly no conclusive proof of that.  My recollection is evidence that XO may be right, but is not conclusive proof of that either.

<< Or that they're right even though the evidence disagrees with them.>>

That's also a logical possibility.  First of all, not all the evidence disagrees with XO.  His recollection and mine are evidence that he is correct.  Your failure to find a videotape of what both of us remember is, frankly, almost worthless as evidence.  We don't know if the videotape exists or not and we don't know how long or how hard you searched, or whether or not you searched in all the right places.  We could both be right and you could be an ineffective searcher.  We could both be right, you could be the best fucking searcher in the world, and there might not be any videotape of the event, either due to alteration, loss or accident.

Your thinking is highly confused and illogical.  I shouldn't have to be giving out lessons in elementary logic to somebody who throws around concepts like "evidence" and "proof" and obviously has little to no idea at all WTF he is talking about.  That was all pretty basic stuff.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on May 03, 2010, 01:45:52 AM
LOL...highly confused and illogical is basically taking yours and Xo's word for it (the claim), and having no back-up, what-so-ever.  Worse, expecting Ami to find it for you, and because he doesn't, there's supposed more "credibility" to your claim

As laughable as it is illogical      ::)
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Plane on May 03, 2010, 05:55:56 AM
I wonder if they saw Tina Fey say that?


The diffrence between the real and the parody might have been too much of a nuance to impress on the memory.

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 07:44:08 AM
That's also a logical possibility.  First of all, not all the evidence disagrees with XO.  His recollection and mine are evidence that he is correct.  Your failure to find a videotape of what both of us remember is, frankly, almost worthless as evidence.

But your failure to produce evidence that you are correct is worth boat loads.

Feel free to produce the video of Palin chanting "Drill, Baby, Drill" at the GOP Convention. Prove to everyone that you're right.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 08:08:18 AM
<<Feel free to produce the video of Palin chanting "Drill, Baby, Drill" at the GOP Convention. Prove to everyone that you're right.>>

I don't have to prove it was said during the GOP Convention, and IMHO neither does XO, because where she said it is an absolutely irrelevant detail. 

I will concede that it's barely possible, as plane suggested, that I saw Tina Fey saying the words and that this transformed in my memory over time to a memory of Palin saying it.  Fey did a remarkable imitation of Sarah Palin.

At this point, however, I have a clear and distinct memory of Sarah Palin saying those words.  So does XO, which reinforces my opinion that she spoke the words.  Whether or not XO is right as to time and place is immaterial, IMHO, since that's an irrelevant detail.

Your inability to find any video of the event is some small evidence of its never having occurred, but not very convincing evidence.  Even assuming that your on-line research skills are better than average and that you gave it a decent effort (something I have no knowledge of either way) your failure to find the tape verifying what both XO and I recall can be explained in several plausible ways, either the source tape being altered and no original copies being available, or a copy being altered and the source and copies of the source then becoming unavailable, or the tape existing and you being unable to locate it, or no tape of the event ever having been preserved and made available on-line or even (God forbid!) both plane and I being mistaken.

What I find laughable in your reasoning is that you proceed from premise to conclusion as if your one piece of evidence (that YOU have not found the tape) permitted only one conclusion.  That's pathetic, frankly.  You really should know better.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 08:16:32 AM
I don't have to prove it was said during the GOP Convention, and IMHO neither does XO, because where she said it is an absolutely irrelevant detail. 

It was what she hollered at the GOP Convention, and at a number of other venues. Google it and you will find it.

However, she DID say it, and in that speech, hence the use of the slogan in the title of the article
. I heard her say it. She repeated it at least two other times, both on the PBS news.

XO is the one who insisted on the venue. BT's claim was that it was never her rallying cry and that if she used it, it was well after others had already used it.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 03, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
<<XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech>>
Doesn't matter one God-damned bit where XO saw or thought he saw the speech.  He saw it somewhere and I saw it somewhere.
If the tape of the event did not show what XO remembered, it is possible the tape you saw was altered. 
If unaltered the tape YOU saw could have been of another event accidentally or otherwise misattributed to the convention. 

Come on Michael....you lose credibility with non-sense like this.
Clearly XO made a claim that AMI shows was not in fact true.
If we are to have at least the most basic level of honest debate in this forum this strikes me as really pushing the limit.
XO was wrong in his claim, it's not the end of the world.
But you arguing the point by claiming or implying the tape AMI provided was altered seems foolish and desperate.

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 08:30:32 AM
Sorry, but I'm going with XO on this one.  His recollection is clear and distinct and your inability to find the tape (or at least an indisputably unaltered copy of it) could mean any number of things.  

Since BT's objection is only as to time and place, I have no quarrel with him and in fact he never says that he saw the same event that XO watched and that his recollection of it differs from XO's.  Whether or not it was ever her "rallying cry" is a highly subjective call to make.  Her every public appearance in the course of the campaign was aimed at garnering support, and if she said it, she said it with that aim in mind, so I'd characterize it as a "rallying cry," and in any event the issue is, did she say it or not.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 08:43:55 AM
<<Come on Michael....you lose credibility with non-sense like this.
<<Clearly XO made a claim that AMI shows was not in fact true.>>

Sorry, CU4, but the MOST that Ami could have shown was that XO was mistaken in time and place, not that she never said the words in the campaign.  I don't consider the time and place of the words to be a significant element in this discussion, where the real issue (IMHO) was whether or not Palin ever said "Drill, Baby, Drill!"  XO claims she said it, I remember hearing her say it (although it's barely possible that it was Tina Fey) and I'm just not concerned whether XO got every single detail right as to where and when he heard her say it.

<<If we are to have at least the most basic level of honest debate in this forum this strikes me as really pushing the limit.
<<XO was wrong in his claim, it's not the end of the world.
<<But you arguing the point by claiming or implying the tape AMI provided was altered seems foolish and desperate.>>

But I didn't make that the cornerstone of the argument.  Tapes are altered for various reasons, some are edited for shortness or other reasons, some just lose data in storage or during transmission and there is really no reason to assume that what Ami saw was in fact an unaltered and unedited record of the entire event.  However, as I explained, even if the tape were a complete record of the event (which I did not categorically deny) it would not have disproved the essential part of XO's recollection, only one relatively insignificant detail of it.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 09:19:44 AM
Further to my last post on this, which was essentially just a reply defending myself to CU4, Media Matters has a whole history of DRILL BABY DRILL  which includes Palin saying this, at:

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/71-71/1635-qdrill-baby-drillq-fox-news-environmental-catastrophe (http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/71-71/1635-qdrill-baby-drillq-fox-news-environmental-catastrophe)

This includes all the Faux Snooze talking heads - - all the clowns in the fucking circus - - chiming in, with the booby prize IMHO going to Glenn Beck ("The oil companies are doing a better job than the government at protecting the fish and wildlife in the ocean.")  Hannity, Palin, Beck, Newt - - they all jumped on the bandwagon.  The resultant catastrophe looks to be the biggest environmental disaster  about to hit the U.S.A. coastal waters and beaches ever, but we shall see.  Hopefully the damage can be averted for now.  If it is, we can expect to see all the fucking morons back on the bandwagon calling for MORE offshore drilling, as if the current fuckup had never even occurred.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Universe Prince on May 03, 2010, 11:26:23 AM

If it is, we can expect to see all the fucking morons back on the bandwagon calling for MORE offshore drilling, as if the current fuckup had never even occurred.


You mean like people who still ride on airplanes even though some airplanes crash?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on May 03, 2010, 11:48:53 AM
<<XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech>>
Doesn't matter one God-damned bit where XO saw or thought he saw the speech.  He saw it somewhere and I saw it somewhere.
If the tape of the event did not show what XO remembered, it is possible the tape you saw was altered. 
If unaltered the tape YOU saw could have been of another event accidentally or otherwise misattributed to the convention.[/color] 

Come on Michael....you lose credibility with non-sense like this.
Clearly XO made a claim that AMI shows was not in fact true.
If we are to have at least the most basic level of honest debate in this forum this strikes me as really pushing the limit.

oh no.....now Cu4 is calling into question Tee's honesty.  Will Tee have no one else to "debate" with??  Cu4, how could you??







 ;)

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on May 03, 2010, 12:04:20 PM
"Let's drill baby drill, not stall baby stall," Palin said of President Obama's recent offshore drilling announcement.  4/9/2010

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/politics_nation/2010/04/srlc_palin_mocks_obama_environment.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/politics_nation/2010/04/srlc_palin_mocks_obama_environment.html)


Context.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 12:41:29 PM
Further to my last post on this, which was essentially just a reply defending myself to CU4, Media Matters has a whole history of DRILL BABY DRILL  which includes Palin saying this, at:

They have her saying it in 2010. A bit after the election, wasn't it?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 03, 2010, 12:42:06 PM
oh no.....now Cu4 is calling into question Tee's honesty. 
Will Tee have no one else to "debate" with??  Cu4, how could you??

Not really SIRS....I just think we all get so polarized
sometimes...in anger we can get to the point of denying 2+2=4

In fact I see Michael as much more "honest" than XO.
XO will never ever give credit to what he opposes or attack his own side
I have seen Michael do both.
You ever seen XO attack Obama?.....LOL....Not gonna happen!
Michael on the other hand has basically posted about his multiple displeasures with Obama.



Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on May 03, 2010, 12:46:18 PM
And the author of the Huffington Post article:

Nico Pitney is National Editor at the Huffington Post. He was previously Deputy Research Director at the Center for American Progress and Managing Editor of ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/28/milbank-pitney/).



Not that we would expect journalistic integrity from organizations that use propaganda outlets as farm teams, but to try to score minor political points at the expense of the pain and suffering of aquatic life is a bit much.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 12:49:47 PM
<<They have her saying it in 2010. A bit after the election, wasn't it?>>

The election is not the key point in this discussion.  Look at my first post - - the point was that the "Drill Baby" morons would all start running from their own foolish words as fast as their legs could carry them.  The key point in this discussion is the OIL SPILL, before and after.

Before, these jerk-offs were all "Drill, Baby, Drill," and my prediction was they'd be plenty God-damn embarrassed at how fucking stupid that turned out to be.  That they wouldn't be DBD any more.  Even Palin seems to be calling for some government oversight.  It's hilariousl
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 12:54:41 PM

<<Not that we would expect journalistic integrity from organizations that use propaganda outlets as farm teams, but to try to score minor political points at the expense of the pain and suffering of aquatic life is a bit much. >>

That's hilarious.  So now the GOP is weeping crocodile tears - - or alligator tears in this case, I guess - - over "the pain and suffering of aquatic life."  Holy fucking shit, will wonders never cease?  What's next?  a silent prayer vigil for the innocent victims of Special Forces murder squads in Afghanistan and Iraq?  How about the injured children of American bombing?  The torture victims of Abu Ghraib?  Geeze, I personally don't know how much more of this Karl Rove can stand.  I'll bet he's gonna become a registered Democrat if this weepy mush continues much longer.  Save the gators from Obama!!!
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on May 03, 2010, 01:24:59 PM
Quote
So now the GOP is weeping crocodile tears...

What party do you think it was that setup the National Park System?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 01:27:05 PM
Before, these jerk-offs were all "Drill, Baby, Drill," and my prediction was they'd be plenty God-damn embarrassed at how fucking stupid that turned out to be.  That they wouldn't be DBD any more.  Even Palin seems to be calling for some government oversight.  It's hilariousl

Seems like Palin was "for government oversight" before she was "for government oversight". Real change in policy, that.

From last year:

"My home state of Alaska shows how it?s possible to be both pro-environment and pro-resource-development. Alaskans would never support anything that endangered our pristine air, clean water, and abundant wildlife (which, among other things, provides many of us with our livelihood). The state?s government has made safeguarding resources a priority; when I was governor, for instance, we created a petroleum-systems-integrity office to monitor our oil and gas infrastructure for any potential environmental risks."
http://article.nationalreview.com/410205/drill/sarah-palin (http://article.nationalreview.com/410205/drill/sarah-palin)
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 03, 2010, 01:27:28 PM
So, I have to insult Obama for Christians to put me in next-to-last place? It hardly seems worth the trouble. I am taking a wait-and-see attitude towards Obama. He hasn't lost his cool, and he seems to be trying to get things done in a very hostile situation, because of the economic mess he was given to deal with.

Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 01:38:53 PM
<<"My home state of Alaska shows how it?s possible to be both pro-environment and pro-resource-development. Alaskans would never support anything that endangered our pristine air, clean water, and abundant wildlife (which, among other things, provides many of us with our livelihood). The state?s government has made safeguarding resources a priority; when I was governor, for instance, we created a petroleum-systems-integrity office to monitor our oil and gas infrastructure for any potential environmental risks.">>

Sweet.  Still doesn't jibe with the pro-drilling policy of her and the whole GOP crew.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 01:48:08 PM
Sweet.  Still doesn't jibe with the pro-drilling policy of her and the whole GOP crew.

Sure it does. You can be pro-drilling and for governmental oversight of that drilling at the same time.

You do realize that "conservation" means "use wisely" and not "do not use" don't you?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 03, 2010, 02:02:58 PM
So, I have to insult Obama for Christians to put me in next-to-last place? It hardly seems worth the trouble.

XO you are typical of what's wrong in today's American politic.
I dont pretend to be an "angel"....but
It is next to impossible for you give honest kudos to the other side.
I suppose you are insecure and you just cant do it.
It's like you pretend the opponent is 100% wrong 100% of the time.
Thats nuts....but thats you.
On the other hand I have repeatedly given sincere kudos to President Clinton for some
of his policies, and I have given sincere credit to President Obama for some of his policies.
Your type of intellectual dishonesty is what causes deep resentment and extreme polarization.


Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 02:10:52 PM
<<What party do you think it was that setup the National Park System?>>

Why don't you ask which party emancipated the slaves?

That was then, this is now.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 02:27:19 PM
<<You can be pro-drilling and for governmental oversight of that drilling at the same time.>>

Sure you can.  Except in the long run, governmental oversight means jack-shit.  Here for example, government overseers apparently wanted all offshore rigs to have acoustic back-up switches, as is required by law in Brazil and Norway.  Oil industry lobbyists lobbied against it.  Who do you think won THAT contest?

<<You do realize that "conservation" means "use wisely" and not "do not use" don't you?>>

I realize that drilling in the Gulf will inevitably result in more spills.  I don't know the history of this drilling concession but you can bet your ass that when it was granted, there were promises and guarantees by the oil companies of "wise use" up the old wazoo but those are promises that the industry can't keep.  If permitted to drill in the Gulf, there will be more and bigger spills in the Gulf.  A matter of when and not if.  In the case of submarine oil and gas drilling, "use" and "use wisely," unfortunately are mutually exclusive terms.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on May 03, 2010, 02:32:47 PM
Quote
That was then, this is now.

Now:

Quote
"But the bottom line is this: Given our energy needs, in order to sustain economic growth, produce jobs and keep our businesses competitive, we're going to need to harness traditional sources of fuel even as we ramp up production of new sources of renewable, homegrown energy."

Uncle Tobama
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 03:11:33 PM
Oil industry lobbyists lobbied against it.  Who do you think won THAT contest?

Then maybe you should support Palin; after all, the oil industry lobby in Alaska lost big time when she was governor of Alaska.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 04:54:10 PM
<< . . . after all, the oil industry lobby in Alaska lost big time when she was governor of Alaska.>>

Really?  How so?
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Amianthus on May 03, 2010, 05:21:52 PM
Really?  How so?

A windfall profits tax. Outsourcing the new pipeline to Canada. A few other things.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 03, 2010, 05:24:26 PM
CU4, observe that I am not the one crying constantly for war, more war and even nuclear war. I consider this to be insanity. Someday, some Republican might do something worthy of a kudo, in my opinion, but as of yet, I have not heard of this occurring. I would like the President to get more done and faster, but I also realize that there are obstacles.


Unlike Tee, I think that Cuba is pretty far from being an ideal example of a just society, and had there been no embargo, I think this would still be true: I do not wish there to be a dictatorship of the proletariat or anyone else, because too much power in too few hands has never resulted in what I would consider the maximum amount of good for the greatest number, which is my ideal. Cuba is in many ways better than the USSR, and in a few ways, superior to China, in other ways inferior. China is arguably overpopulated, and yet it feds itself: Cuba is not even remotely overpopulated and cannot feed itself, or even supply basic items like toilet paper, toothpaste and laundry detergent. Part of this is because Cubans are not Chinese: Chinese society has always been rather collectivist, and Cuban society has a rather anarchical character.



Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Michael Tee on May 03, 2010, 06:12:41 PM
<<A windfall profits tax. Outsourcing the new pipeline to Canada. A few other things.>>

Well, ya got me there.  I've been looking for some negative shit on the windfall profits tax but could not find it.  She DID put the bite on the oil companies and it looks like she wasn't in bed with them.

I was looking for a progressive blogger who had some dirt on the windfall profits tax - - maybe that despite the name, it was the smallest possible annoyance that the oil companies could have had inflicted on them, and that a tougher, Hugo Chavez-type leader could have taken a much bigger bite.  I couldn't find what I was looking for.

So although I'm naturally suspicious of Sarah, for the time being, I'll have to admit that it looks like you are right and she was not in the pocket of the oil companies, but instead really socked it to them.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Plane on May 03, 2010, 06:26:53 PM
<<A windfall profits tax. Outsourcing the new pipeline to Canada. A few other things.>>

Well, ya got me there.  I've been looking for some negative shit on the windfall profits tax but could not find it.  She DID put the bite on the oil companies and it looks like she wasn't in bed with them.

I was looking for a progressive blogger who had some dirt on the windfall profits tax - - maybe that despite the name, it was the smallest possible annoyance that the oil companies could have had inflicted on them, and that a tougher, Hugo Chavez-type leader could have taken a much bigger bite.  I couldn't find what I was looking for.

So although I'm naturally suspicious of Sarah, for the time being, I'll have to admit that it looks like you are right and she was not in the pocket of the oil companies, but instead really socked it to them.


I think you should suspect the motives of anyone who tells you half the story.

Democrats wanted to get elected more than they wanted the quality of Sara Palin to be fairly evaluated.

I know , the same thing running in the other direction is easy to find.

I know to take a grain of salt along with the news anytime that there is a lot of payoff for results and little demand for credability.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on May 03, 2010, 06:44:42 PM
What party do you think it was that setup the National Park System?

BT....if I'm not mistaken I think a Republican signed the creation of the
Environmental Protection Agency and another Republican signed
the Clean Water Act into law.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: BT on May 03, 2010, 06:56:39 PM

Quote
BT....if I'm not mistaken I think a Republican signed the creation of the
Environmental Protection Agency and another Republican signed
the Clean Water Act into law.

You are not mistaken.
Title: Re: From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence
Post by: sirs on May 03, 2010, 08:45:53 PM
oh no.....now Cu4 is calling into question Tee's honesty. 
Will Tee have no one else to "debate" with??  Cu4, how could you??

Not really SIRS....I just think we all get so polarized
sometimes...in anger we can get to the point of denying 2+2=4

In fact I see Michael as much more "honest" than XO.
XO will never ever give credit to what he opposes or attack his own side
I have seen Michael do both.
You ever seen XO attack Obama?.....LOL....Not gonna happen!
Michael on the other hand has basically posted about his multiple displeasures with Obama.

hehe......I'm just funnin with yas Cu4.  You've become very important to Tee, in that you're not calling him out on any of his lies.  He needs some folks he can still berrate and insult, without too much fear of thier "honesty" being questioned.  In fact, very few people are calling him out on his lies, because,....*gasp*.... unlike his popular perception, he doesn't very often.  Most of the time (dare I say 98% of the time), he's simply horribly wrong, in his opinions.  But see, I have to play this game, which at the same time, helps to highlight some of this childish ploy he's using, when he doesn't want to deal with substantive inquires directed at him, by the likes of me, or Prince.  No, he has to have a hissy fit, because someone, back when, DARED to point out a specific lie on his part.

But on the point of Obama, as we all can see the reason Tee's displeasure with Obama....that his he doesn't have the conviction to stay 100% on his socialist agenda.  I mean, he is a politician, and the goal of a politician is to A) impliment your agenda, and B) get re-elected.  A VERY distant C) is to represent your constituents.  In fact, it may be W).  So there's this highwire to act of pushing a socialist, if not fascist agenda, that the vast majority of the country does NOT want any part of, yet not completely doom the Democrat party into a decade+ of minority status.  As it is, the pundits are already lining up to reference that its "normal" for a President to lose seats in a mid election.  I guess will see just how "normal" this one's going to be

Point being, notice how he's still playing the conspiracy card with the Times Square car bomb attempt?  Notice who's in charge in DC?  If this were any GOP president, Tee'd be calling for impeachment precedings, but here, not a whiff of Obama's adminstration behind it.  Just a generic claim of how this country is supposedly driving towards a Fascist Dictator

Not as long as the 2nd amendment is alive and well.  Though given this administration's flagrant end arounds of the Constitution, good thing we still have a majority of Constitutionally focused Supreme Court justices