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Messages - Universe Prince

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3556
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: November 01, 2006, 12:52:09 AM »
And by the way, I'm still waiting for someone to explain the whole oppressions of diversity thing. What, exactly, are the oppressions brought about by diversity? Am I oppressed by living in a diverse society? And if so, what have I lost, i.e.,  in what way have I been oppressed? If not the oppression of an individual, then perhaps society, in part or as a whole, has been oppressed. In which case the question remains. In what way has society—which is individuals and therefore includes me—been oppressed? Anyone? Anyone care to explain these supposed "Diversity's Oppressions"? Anyone?

3557
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: November 01, 2006, 12:36:48 AM »

No, I'm HOPING people will want to assimilate.


And if they don't?


As Kimba has referenced, it's principly what has made this country great, and why our country has been referred to as the "melting pot".  It's also at the core of what Sowell was trying to say, that was frequently being distorted this morning.


Please point out where Mr. Sowell said anything at all that indicated the core of his argument was that the "melting pot" is what has made this country great. Wait... are you suggesting all that language about reining in the dangers of diversity was really about the greatness of the American "melting pot"? If you are, you have to be joking. You can't be serious.


And NO, that's not counter to the idea of enforcing our borders.  Apples & Oranges, but nice try


Please tell me you're not suggesting now that the assimilation issue is not related to the immigration issue. Apples and oranges? This is another joke, right?

3558
3DHS / Re: More on Southern men and their sisters
« on: October 31, 2006, 06:16:31 PM »
If it is a lack of humor to not find bigoted "jokes" funny, I freely admit to it. But if you're calling your post humor, I think perhaps you're the one lacking. And I don't mean just humor.

3559
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: October 31, 2006, 06:13:46 PM »

And one more time, who's "requiring" a melting?  Pointing out flaws is a far cry from mandating behavior.  Is there pending legislation I'm not aware of?


Aren't you expecting people to assimilate? Maybe you're not, but as I recall, that is one of the major objections to open borders and letting all those Mexicans "flood" into America. They're not learning the language, blah blah blah. Don't act like Lanya is responding to nothing. And let's not forget this started because you posted a column by Thomas Sowell arguing quite clearly that diversity is a danger to be reined in and tamed. And by the way, Lanya did not say anyone was requiring people to "melt". What Lanya said was that people are not so required and that they shouldn't be. If you agree, then just agree and stop all this blustering. If you think Sowell is right, and that diversity is a danger, and that there is no evidence of any benefits to diversity, then just say so and stop all this protestations of what supposedly no one is saying. Don't say what you don't mean. Say what you do mean, and let's get on with this.

3560
3DHS / Re: More on Southerm men and their sisters
« on: October 31, 2006, 03:53:54 PM »
Only a judgmental asshole would take one story about one family and label it "More on Southerm [sic] men and their sisters".

3561
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: October 31, 2006, 03:37:49 PM »

We are not required to "melt" to be Americans.   Free Americans shouldn't have to meet someone's snotty and ridiculous standards to be thought of as American.


I could not agree more.

3562
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: October 31, 2006, 03:31:27 PM »

And who exactly is argueing against that?  Sowell sure the hell isn't.  "Melting pot" implies a commonality of all other diveristies coming together to make American culture great.  It's folks from all parts of the globe, coming to America to make America great, to embrace that which makes America great.  It's not requiring them to admonish or ignore their own culture to be American. 

Do you, or Js, not understand the difference?


Is this a joke? Are you being sarcastic?

If not, let's look at what Mr. Sowell said about diversity.


Quote
What is it that has made Iraq so hard to pacify, even after a swift and decisive military victory? In one word: diversity. That word has become a sacred mantra, endlessly repeated for years on end, without a speck of evidence being asked for or given to verify the wonderful benefits it is assumed to produce.

Worse yet, Iraq is only the latest in a long series of catastrophes growing out of diversity. These include "ethnic cleansing" in the Balkans, genocide in Rwanda and the Sudan, the million lives destroyed in intercommunal violence when India became independent in 1947 and the even larger number of Armenians slaughtered by Turks during World War I.

Despite much gushing about how we should "celebrate diversity," America's great achievement has not been in having diversity but in taming its dangers that have run amok in many other countries. Americans have by no means escaped diversity's oppressions and violence, but we have reined them in.

Not a thing there about how America has benefited from diversity. But there we do see Mr. Sowell saying directly and plainly that "America's great achievement has not been in having diversity but in taming its dangers". That is not an endorsement of diversity by any stretch of the imagination. Mr. Sowell is clearly arguing against diversity, not for it.

Do you not understand the difference?

3563
3DHS / Re: DO YOU WANT AMERICA TO WIN?
« on: October 31, 2006, 03:15:33 PM »

CHENEY: But wolf, there's a difference between news and terrorist propaganda.


Yes, there is. But some people seem to have decided any news about the war that they don't like is terrorist propaganda.

Do you want America to win? Sure I do. Do you? Should the truth be told? Do we have anything to fear from the truth, from knowing the truth? Is anyone forcing you to watch CNN?

3564
3DHS / Re: Foreign Aid: A Storefront For schemes And Scams
« on: October 31, 2006, 03:05:56 PM »
Quote

"It's cheaper, yeah," said Lisa Jackson, 42, a worker in the packaging plant. "But we Americans should have first choice. We need our jobs to stay in America. We got to feed our families."


It's really sad that people think jobs are some sort of finite resource. Our jobs will always be in America. If a job opportunity is offered to someone in another country, that does not subtract from the number of jobs available to Americans. The world is not static, and we only harm ourselves to expect it to be so.

3565
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: October 31, 2006, 02:52:18 PM »

the very source of america greatness is diversity
thee only reason this country grew as fast as it ever did is because it really is a melting pot.


Exactly. Well said, Kimba.

3566
3DHS / Re: Diversity's Oppressions
« on: October 31, 2006, 02:45:51 PM »
Sweet licorice jelly beans.... the propaganda just never stops.

Other wars have had lots of bloodshed and disaster before victory, so by golly we ought not give up on this war. Oh pooh yi. Pooh-frakkin'-yi. Oh yeah, this is just like World War II, and if we just hang in there, we will save humanity from a fate worse than death. It is as if world history started at the bombing of Pearl Harbor and so World War II and Vietnam are the only two wars anyone can think to compare to the current conflict in Iraq. [Must   resist   urge to find   banging head   against brick wall   more productive...]

And what the forlorn flim-flam is this complaining about diversity? Mr. Sowell says, "That word has become a sacred mantra, endlessly repeated for years on end, without a speck of evidence being asked for or given to verify the wonderful benefits it is assumed to produce." No evidence given? Is the man blind and deaf? Evidence? America. America is the evidence. This country is blessed by a wonderful diversity that has contributed greatly to America's strength and prosperity. A person, or at least an American, would have to be willfully blind to not see it.

But what does Mr. Sowell say? "Despite much gushing about how we should 'celebrate diversity,' America's great achievement has not been in having diversity but in taming its dangers that have run amok in many other countries. Americans have by no means escaped diversity's oppressions and violence, but we have reined them in." Diversity's oppressions? What does that even mean? What are the oppressions of diversity? Is it oppressive to have Jews and Christians and Pagans and atheists living in the same neighborhoods and cities? Is it oppressive to have Germans and Italians and Chinese and Indians living here? What in the name of Jim Thorpe is oppressive about diversity? And for the record, we should be ashamed of the extent to which we seek to rein in diversity. America is supposed to be the land of the free. Apparently Mr. Sowell thinks America is the land of the reined in.

Mr. Sowell then almost starts making sense when he starts talking about nation building. He even, gasp, recalls the end of World War I. But then he looses it again and starts trying to tie it all back to the supposed evils of diversity. Nation building is not wrong because someone might try to push diversity. Nation building is wrong because the government of the U.S. or of any other nation, has no business telling other countries what to do.

And then Mr. Sowell insists we must remain in Iraq because to do otherwise is to grant victory to the terrorists and because other nations might think twice about being our allies. Here is a clue: a whole heap of other nations are already thinking twice about being our allies.

The problem in Iraq is not diversity. The problem in Iraq is people not getting along with those who are different. This is a problem that needs more diversity, not less. But beyond that, America needs to stop believing we can make other people get along. Particularly people with centuries old divisions. We cannot make them hurry up and put aside their differences and sing some Arabic version of Kumbaya. We have got to start letting people live their own lives regardless of whether or not it fits the Western ideal of togetherness and love. And frankly, America needs to clean house here regarding the freedom of individuals before we start trying to tell other people how to get along. We are still afraid of Mexicans "flooding" across the border, think that institutionalizing racial divisions is the way to deal with racism, and want to deny homosexuals the ability to enter into a legal agreement and call it 'marriage'.

3567
3DHS / Re: Check out the Czechs
« on: October 27, 2006, 04:07:45 PM »

But this doesn't disprove that at all. Clearly the government, as far as the institutions of government (to which Plane alludes) still function in the Czech Republic. They simply function without the elected Parliament. Honestly speaking, most state governments function just fine when their elected assemblies are out of session or in recess. The institutions themselves remain viable and continue to serve in their legal capacity just fine. The only problem would be in regards to Czech laws concerning appropriations of funds. Once the budget runs out, then you might start running into legal troubles.


I don't know how many institutions of government the Czech Republic has, so I cannot comment on how much of the current state of the country is because of such institutions and how much is just people going about their lives. I will say, however, that the essential lack of a national government has not resulted in people doing anything they please. That organizations normally thought of as institutions of government continue apparently without a national government to make sure they exist and function seems a very direct proof to me that such institutions do not need a government to exist or to operate. I don't really see how you claim that it doesn't. Yes, funding could become an issue, but there is no reason to assume that government is the only means of funding such organizations.


If anything I'd argue that this is a very anti-libertarian principle. The truth is that elected assemblies are probably not as important as most people think, though that depends very much on the legal democratic framework.


Please explain how people getting along fine without elected assemblies is an anti-libertarian principle. The notion that people don't need government to create social order is very much a libertarian idea. So I am just not following your apparent argument that people getting along without government proves that people need government. I mean, you seem to be saying that people can get along without government because they have government, which seems contradictory to me.

3568
3DHS / Re: Check out the Czechs
« on: October 27, 2006, 03:41:18 PM »

The Czechs are a peaceful and civilized people, we are not. The lack of govt here would be the same as it now is in Iraq.


That is a good example of why I tend not to believe liberals when they talk about believing in and/or caring for their fellow man. When they start talking as if we're all brutal savages kept in check by government, believing that they're motivated by faith in their fellow human beings becomes extremely difficult. Which is why they seem so similar to the fundamentalist Christians who want to run the government. It's not so much that they care about others as it is that they believe that they need to control others to keep them from acting like lustful, selfish beasts. That they also insist this desire is some sort of socially conscious compassion doesn't help at all. The veneer hiding the judgmental condescension toward anyone and everyone who does not agree with them is much thinner than most people realize. This is not true for all liberals, of course, but it is true for many.

3569
3DHS / Re: Check out the Czechs
« on: October 27, 2006, 03:26:59 PM »
I don't think that at all, Domer. Just the opposite in fact. But whenever the topic of minimizing or doing without government comes up, the most common objection to arise is that without government to maintain social order, society would devolve into chaos. Clearly, at least in the Czech Republic, this is not the case, which was my reason for posting the info.

3570
3DHS / Check out the Czechs
« on: October 27, 2006, 01:38:40 AM »
Without government, chaos and death would run rampant through the streets, killing puppies, children and the elderly in a massive fit of suffering, poverty and destruction. Or would it? Czech out the... oops, sorry. Check out the article at the other end of this link. The article is about the Czech Republic and the political situation that has left it essentially without government since June.

                              All the while, the Czech economy continues to perform nicely. Unemployment fell from 8.8 percent in August 2005 to 7.8 percent in August 2006, and economic growth is projected to reach 6 percent this year. The continued growth of the economy suggests that the investors perceive the Czech Republic as a safe place for their savings. That is a vote of confidence in the strength of the Czech institutional framework and the progress that the country has made since the fall of the Berlin Wall.                             

Whole thing at TCS Daily.

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