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3DHS / Re: Take this, you 7 year old bitch!
« on: August 05, 2010, 05:24:12 PM »
I know. Not enough use of capital letters or over-the-top language about the ruinous threat of unlicensed lemonade sellers.
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17
3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 05:21:33 PM »
Sorry Prince, not going to play that game of yours today
Yes, I understand. Coming up with good reasons to want to tightly control immigration is so hard.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 05:20:30 PM »
No you don't.
Yeah, you do.
I'm pretty sure you have to have immigration laws before you can have a problem with people breaking the immigration laws. And if the immigration laws are causing a bigger problem than they solve, merely dealing with illegal immigrants essentially isn't going to solve the problem. Maybe you aren't required by the laws of physics to address the immigration issue first, but if you do not deal with the immigration issue before you address the issue of people entering the country illegally, you're not dealing with the root issue. It's sort of like an angry parent trying to force a child to follow lots of very strict rules and then complaining that the child is always unhappy and disobedient. You can scapegoat the illegal immigrants all you like, but until you address the immigration issue, you're just wasting time while the problem gets worse.
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3DHS / Re: Take this, you 7 year old bitch!
« on: August 05, 2010, 05:01:10 PM »
I can't believe anyone would object to the government enforcing the law. I suppose next you're going to say we should let just anybody sell lemonade any time and any place with no concern at all for public health. Don't you understand what a menace this is to public safety? Don't you think the government has a right to set rules that protect the public health? Don't you think the people ought to have some say in public health issues? Why should the rest of us have live with a health risk just to accommodate some people who want sell lemonade without a license? I guess you think everyone should just get a free pass.... oops, pardon my faux pas.... I guess you think everyone should just get a FREE PASS to do whatever they want.
This sarcasm has been brought to you by the Official Sarcasm Board of Someplace, U.S.A.
This sarcasm has been brought to you by the Official Sarcasm Board of Someplace, U.S.A.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 04:43:19 PM »
YOUR issue is this need to agree to your version of immigration & its "significantly relaxed" requirements, otherwise one apparently doesn't support immigration
I've never said that. You're apparently unprepared to discuss what I have actually said.
I'll be waiting when you're ready to discuss restricting some of your significant relaxation mandates. Then we can address some of my willingness to lessen the current ones
You'll have to give me a good reason to change my position. I don't change my position just because you say I should. And so far, all I've seen from anyone is "They're going to ruin the country" fear mongering. That isn't a good reason to do anything.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 04:36:27 PM »
The issue is two fold.
Immigration
and how to handle those who enter the country illegally.
Even if, for the sake of argument I accept that, you have to deal with the first before you can address the second.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 02:20:22 PM »
Never said literally, merely the implication was transparent
Ahem. Let me know when you're through trying to insist I meant things I never said.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 02:18:07 PM »
However since I don't agree with your version of "significantly relaxed", apparently that translates into me not wanting immigration to even occur, or that I'm against immigration because I make it so hard
Not what I said. What I said was: "If we significantly relaxed immigration restrictions and made immigrating here relatively easy, then the people coming in would be legal immigrants, and likely there would still be some illegal immigrants. Since you don't support significantly relaxed immigration restrictions and making immigrating here relatively easy, clearly the issue is immigration, not legal vs. illegal." No part of that says or implies you do not want immigration to even occur.
I see your point though, just make it so easy, that nearly everyone entering is "legal", problem solved. Problem is, it doesn't
Thus the issue is immigration, not legal vs. illegal.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:45:43 PM »
The American People should have no say in this matter!
No one is arguing that. Nice strawman building skills though. If I ever need an archery target, I'll let you know.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:42:59 PM »
Clearly, I don't support your version of "significantly relaxed restrictions"
I repeat: No one is saying we should have lots and lots of illegal immigration. If we significantly relaxed immigration restrictions and made immigrating here relatively easy, then the people coming in would be legal immigrants, and likely there would still be some illegal immigrants. Since you don't support significantly relaxed immigration restrictions and making immigrating here relatively easy, clearly the issue is immigration, not legal vs. illegal.
You haven't said anything that actually contradicts that.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:38:50 PM »No one said it was a closed border.
Your insinuation of how "difficult" it is, literally "preventing" an unskilled immigrant from coming to this country, is pretty transparent. Your application in the use of not supporting "significantly relaxing" current immigration requirements, is also duely noted
When get around to noting that I have never said anything about the border being closed, let me know. Better yet, let me know when you're through trying to insist I meant things I never said.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:34:34 PM »
For it to be a lie i would have had to have said that the required paperwork was automatically approved.
I didn't. Which makes you the liar.
I said, "The point is, why should he be prevented from going somewhere else?" To which you replied, "They aren't. They simply need to properly fill out the required paperwork." The "They aren't" certainly appears to indicate the "they", the would-be immigrants, are not prevented from immigrating here. You then explained further by saying, "They simply need to properly fill out the required paperwork." The clear indication being that no one is prevented from immigrating here so long as they fill out the proper paperwork. And as we have established, filling out paperwork is not a guarantee of being allowed to enter. So therefore, your comment was not true, and I have not lied about anything.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:55:07 AM »
Of course some applications are turned down.
So we've put to rest the false notion that no one is being prevented from entering. So much for the lie indeed.
Legal immigrants by virtue of their status did this.
Illegal immigrants by virtue of their status do not.
Again, if it were as simple as filling out paperwork, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Let's see... Which seems more appealing to people who want to come here to work: filling out some paperwork or risking death crossing the desert? Hm... This is a real toughy...
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:41:58 AM »
Should a person give the government a chance to approve or deny a visa?
Why should a government have any controll over who and what crosses its frontiers?
It's like no one ever remembers anything I say. As I have said before many times, I am fully in favor of government keeping known criminals and diseased people out of the country.
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3DHS / Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:35:21 AM »
You pointed out that crossing state borders inside the US was done for serious and trivial reasons with little or no regulation.
I am sure I have pointed that out at some time or other. But in responding to you, Plane, in this thread, that is not what I said. My comments about people moving within the U.S. did not mention regulations. What they did was address your questions, "Why are they better off here?" and "These are great people , if they had to stay home would they not be usefull and influential in the improvement of their homeland?" The point being that moving somewhere different to live and work is not about an objective measure of "better" or about what might happen if someone were forced to remain where he was. At no point in my reply to your questions did I bring up visas, or traveling with them or without them.
But you skipped a step somewhere in jumping on twards saying that croissing international borders is equivelent to crossing borders internal to a country.
I did not say that. You have jumped to an erroneous conclusion.