26956
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26957
3DHS / From Forkem About Iranian Jurisprudence
« on: September 21, 2006, 12:49:22 AM »
August 23, 2004
Mullah Justice
From Iran Focus: Girl, 16, hanged in public in Iran. (Via Little Green Footballs)
On Sunday, August 15, a 16-year-old girl in the town of Neka, northern Iran, was executed. Ateqeh Sahaleh was hanged in public on Simetry Street off Rah Ahan Street at the city center. The sentence was issued by the head of Neka’s Justice Department and subsequently upheld by the mullahs’ Supreme Court and carried out with the approval of Judiciary Chief Mahmoud Shahroudi.
In her summary trial, the teenage victim did not have any lawyer and efforts by her family to recruit a lawyer was to no avail. Ateqeh personally defended herself. She told the religious judge, Haji Rezaii, that he should punish the main perpetrators of moral corruption not the victims.
The judge personally pursued Ateqeh’s death sentence, beyond all normal procedures and finally gained the approval of the Supreme Court. After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her "sharp tongue". [Emphasis added]
'Free Iran' News has translated from Farsi another article:
The animosity and anger of [local judge] Haji Reza was so strong that he personally put the rope around the girl's delicate neck and personally gave the signal to the crane operator, by raising his hand, to begin pulling the rope.
And Iran-Va-Jahan reports that Amnesty International has issued a statement on the execution of Ateqeh Sahaleh.
UPDATE August 30: This cartoon appeared in the Sunday, August 29th edition of The Washington Times.
Posted by Forkum at 11:24 PM
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I guess that there are miscarrages of Justice everywhere , but would this be caricterised as a" Misscarrage " or " Justice" by the government of Iran?
Mullah Justice
From Iran Focus: Girl, 16, hanged in public in Iran. (Via Little Green Footballs)
On Sunday, August 15, a 16-year-old girl in the town of Neka, northern Iran, was executed. Ateqeh Sahaleh was hanged in public on Simetry Street off Rah Ahan Street at the city center. The sentence was issued by the head of Neka’s Justice Department and subsequently upheld by the mullahs’ Supreme Court and carried out with the approval of Judiciary Chief Mahmoud Shahroudi.
In her summary trial, the teenage victim did not have any lawyer and efforts by her family to recruit a lawyer was to no avail. Ateqeh personally defended herself. She told the religious judge, Haji Rezaii, that he should punish the main perpetrators of moral corruption not the victims.
The judge personally pursued Ateqeh’s death sentence, beyond all normal procedures and finally gained the approval of the Supreme Court. After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her "sharp tongue". [Emphasis added]
'Free Iran' News has translated from Farsi another article:
The animosity and anger of [local judge] Haji Reza was so strong that he personally put the rope around the girl's delicate neck and personally gave the signal to the crane operator, by raising his hand, to begin pulling the rope.
And Iran-Va-Jahan reports that Amnesty International has issued a statement on the execution of Ateqeh Sahaleh.
UPDATE August 30: This cartoon appeared in the Sunday, August 29th edition of The Washington Times.
Posted by Forkum at 11:24 PM
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I guess that there are miscarrages of Justice everywhere , but would this be caricterised as a" Misscarrage " or " Justice" by the government of Iran?
26958
3DHS / Re: If we change the law re: Geneva Conventions
« on: September 21, 2006, 12:24:57 AM »
"...If we make any effort at all to try to redefine it or tweak it or to amplify it, the world will see that as our effort to lawyer the Geneva Convention to try to create some type of loophole or excuse for conduct."
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So in passages in which the treaty is deliberately vague , we shall enforce it vaguely?
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So in passages in which the treaty is deliberately vague , we shall enforce it vaguely?
26959
3DHS / Re: Death of Opinion Journalism
« on: September 21, 2006, 12:19:52 AM »
Is debate an adversarial exposition and search for truth , or more like a game of "King of the Mountain"?
26960
3DHS / Re: Children fight troops in Iraq
« on: September 21, 2006, 12:16:35 AM »IF you wanted (rightly or wrongly and for whatever reason) to resist the foreigners who had invaded your country, and you lived in Iraq, WHERE would you fight them? Alone in the desert, where they aren't, or in your biggest cities, where they are? Similarly, where would they eat and sleep? In the desert, miles away from the fighting, or in the midst of their own enemy-occupied cities, which may be free-fire zones to the Americans, but are HOME to the Resistance fighters?
Hmmmmm.....
Would I fight my invader by blowing up my neighbors?
Would I fight my invader by blowing up my rival crosstown church?
Would I fight my invader by shooting an ethnic that I saw as co-operative with the invader?
These are tecniques of resistance tipical of the KKK , and are a big part of the KKK's decline in popularity.
If you were a Southerner sore at the treatment of the South by the federal Government would you blow up a church full of black worshipers as a symbolic experssion of your displeasure?
If you were a Sunni would blowing up a Mosque full of Shiites serve to harm the invadeing Americans well enough for you to do it?
26961
3DHS / Re: Wouldn't it be ironic
« on: September 21, 2006, 12:05:43 AM »
"...because we have not tried ANYONE. We simply let them stay in prison. "
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Isn't that the norm for prisoners of war?
Thousands of Germans and Italians were guilty of shooting Americans and were captured and sent to prison camps , would it have been right to try them for murder?
I don't think so, if the Geneva Conventions do apply then these are Prisoners of War and ought never be tried.
If they are international Criminals then it is the right and responsibility of the Congress to establish procedures for their trial and punishment.
I think that they are a lot like Pirates , stateless hijackers of commerce and kidnap artists , Pirates were tried on the spot by shipcaptains authorised to do so by the Congress.
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Isn't that the norm for prisoners of war?
Thousands of Germans and Italians were guilty of shooting Americans and were captured and sent to prison camps , would it have been right to try them for murder?
I don't think so, if the Geneva Conventions do apply then these are Prisoners of War and ought never be tried.
If they are international Criminals then it is the right and responsibility of the Congress to establish procedures for their trial and punishment.
I think that they are a lot like Pirates , stateless hijackers of commerce and kidnap artists , Pirates were tried on the spot by shipcaptains authorised to do so by the Congress.
26962
3DHS / Re: Treaties and consistency
« on: September 20, 2006, 11:58:44 PM »
Why did the Shah not want atomic energy?
I haven't heard about that.
I haven't heard about that.
26963
3DHS / Re: Gas prices are plummeting, yet...
« on: September 20, 2006, 11:57:33 PM »
Big Oil loves their Republican Ass kissers .
Big Oil Loves their Democratic Ass kissers.
Oil Prices are set at auction and are much better for oil producers when they are high.
Oil Producers include some people who do not especially like President Bush , Hugo Chavez for example , who has been giving oil away, but he may quit that when he hears how much it is a help to President Bush.
Oh my knuckles are so sore.
Big Oil Loves their Democratic Ass kissers.
Oil Prices are set at auction and are much better for oil producers when they are high.
Oil Producers include some people who do not especially like President Bush , Hugo Chavez for example , who has been giving oil away, but he may quit that when he hears how much it is a help to President Bush.
Oh my knuckles are so sore.
26964
3DHS / Re: Pope: My 'deep respect' for Islam
« on: September 20, 2006, 11:53:38 PM »
http://bible.cc/proverbs/15-1.htm
Proverbs 15 - 1
One of my favoriates.
I suppose it is not proper for a Modern Pope to express a strong preference for Christianity. Or explain why.
The origional speech is the mildest of unintended insults and it was not delivered to the world at large or a venue in which Muslims are frequent.
The Pope is forbidden to express a religious opinion within the walls of a Catholic seminary?
The Pope is the victim of agents provocateurs who have been combing his speeches hopeing for inflamitory retoric , they had to dig deep to find a small nugget.
I am happy to see the Pope hold his pride in low esteem and offer a diplomatic apology , humility is in his job description after all and he is looking at a bigger picture.
On the other hand I don't see the right of Muslims to proof his homilys for conformance to Islamic doctrine , or make such a big fuss over such a small point.
Will they want to edit Castro , Desmond Tutu or President Clinton (after her election) to ensure that all speeches given in public are in conformance with Islam?
Proverbs 15 - 1
One of my favoriates.
I suppose it is not proper for a Modern Pope to express a strong preference for Christianity. Or explain why.
The origional speech is the mildest of unintended insults and it was not delivered to the world at large or a venue in which Muslims are frequent.
The Pope is forbidden to express a religious opinion within the walls of a Catholic seminary?
The Pope is the victim of agents provocateurs who have been combing his speeches hopeing for inflamitory retoric , they had to dig deep to find a small nugget.
I am happy to see the Pope hold his pride in low esteem and offer a diplomatic apology , humility is in his job description after all and he is looking at a bigger picture.
On the other hand I don't see the right of Muslims to proof his homilys for conformance to Islamic doctrine , or make such a big fuss over such a small point.
Will they want to edit Castro , Desmond Tutu or President Clinton (after her election) to ensure that all speeches given in public are in conformance with Islam?
26965
3DHS / Re: Gas prices are plummeting, yet...
« on: September 20, 2006, 11:40:16 PM »
Why would a non moron make the connection?
The sun may rise the day of the election too , but would President Bush need to prove that he had done that?
The sun may rise the day of the election too , but would President Bush need to prove that he had done that?
26966
3DHS / Re: I just Read the Popes Speech, Oh the shame
« on: September 20, 2006, 06:26:50 PM »
Should President Bush ever be criticised ?
His followers are nuts you know.
If you can criticise President Bush in harsh tones with confidence that the result will not be riots and killing then you are by inference giveing the people who support president Bush credit for some couth.
If you cannot give some such credit to some other such group are you by implying something negative about the civility of that Group?
Do you remember the "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" of France and the renameing of French fries ? As I recall the French laughed it off and returned the verbage with tipical Gaullic brio.
I think that there are some Muslims who are mature and calm , how many are childish in your estimation?
His followers are nuts you know.
If you can criticise President Bush in harsh tones with confidence that the result will not be riots and killing then you are by inference giveing the people who support president Bush credit for some couth.
If you cannot give some such credit to some other such group are you by implying something negative about the civility of that Group?
Do you remember the "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" of France and the renameing of French fries ? As I recall the French laughed it off and returned the verbage with tipical Gaullic brio.
I think that there are some Muslims who are mature and calm , how many are childish in your estimation?
26967
3DHS / Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« on: September 20, 2006, 06:14:02 PM »
You want Hezbollah, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, and Harakat ul-Mujahidin to be lumped together in one group and they simply are not.
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Why are they not?
There is a lot of diffrence between Catfish , Bowfin , Gar and Tuna but they have a need for water in common so I do include them all when I speak of "fish".
The various groupings that are subsets of "Islamofacisist" may be as diffrent as gitaurfish and shrimp , but they if they have a passion for killing Americans in common they do need a common term that distinguishes them from Islamists that are not so eager to kill.
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Why are they not?
There is a lot of diffrence between Catfish , Bowfin , Gar and Tuna but they have a need for water in common so I do include them all when I speak of "fish".
The various groupings that are subsets of "Islamofacisist" may be as diffrent as gitaurfish and shrimp , but they if they have a passion for killing Americans in common they do need a common term that distinguishes them from Islamists that are not so eager to kill.
26968
3DHS / Re: Wouldn't it be ironic
« on: September 20, 2006, 06:04:01 PM »
I don't see it as especially ironic , if these guys are really guilty of something , they are home grown terrorists.
Christians in Indonesia have a hard time , but I hope they are not really resorting to terrorism .
Christians in Indonesia have a hard time , but I hope they are not really resorting to terrorism .
26969
3DHS / Re: Is the Hitler analogy outdated?
« on: September 20, 2006, 06:01:43 PM »
Here is an entirely hypothetical idea.
Suppose that the FBI discovered that most assassins kept three gallons of milk in their fridges?
It would certainly still be true that most milk was sold to careing mothers and old ladies concerned with their calcium.
But if by some quirk it was discovered that assissians generally bought a lot of milk should the FBI be able to inquire about big milk purchaces from grocers? Would that be an imposition on all the legitamate milk buyers?
If this is too hypothetical for you , substitute Ammonium Nitrate or concentrated Hydrogen Peroxide in the place of milk in the above question.
Suppose that the FBI discovered that most assassins kept three gallons of milk in their fridges?
It would certainly still be true that most milk was sold to careing mothers and old ladies concerned with their calcium.
But if by some quirk it was discovered that assissians generally bought a lot of milk should the FBI be able to inquire about big milk purchaces from grocers? Would that be an imposition on all the legitamate milk buyers?
If this is too hypothetical for you , substitute Ammonium Nitrate or concentrated Hydrogen Peroxide in the place of milk in the above question.
26970
3DHS / Re: I just Read the Popes Speech, Oh the shame
« on: September 20, 2006, 04:01:00 AM »
The Pope did not direct his speech twards Muslims nor was he in a forum where many Muslims could be expected to be listening, the theme of his speech was not Islam or thge violence of Islam .
But someone translated the most choice snippet of the speech into Arabic , someone who saw a use for the contraversy , perhaps someone who was peruseing everything that the Pope has ever said looking for something usefull in riot generation.
Remember the Danish Cartoons? They were not sent to Egypt or Packistan untill they were months old and were spotted by someone who thought that they should be sent .
I don't think that the Pope was out of line or was picking a fight , he seemed to be discussing the nature of his religion frankly with Doctors and students of religion, the blame for rthe violence might ought to rest on the guys that want it.
Is it really a reasonable alternative for us to remain totally PC in all speech eschewing all offence on all occasions ?
Even when it is the truth that is objectionable?
I bet that If I wanted to prove anyone was anti semitic or anti Islamic I could find some quote that I could carve out of its context and present in part to make the "proof" all I would need was someone who spoke a lot and plenty of time to parce his speeches.
But someone translated the most choice snippet of the speech into Arabic , someone who saw a use for the contraversy , perhaps someone who was peruseing everything that the Pope has ever said looking for something usefull in riot generation.
Remember the Danish Cartoons? They were not sent to Egypt or Packistan untill they were months old and were spotted by someone who thought that they should be sent .
I don't think that the Pope was out of line or was picking a fight , he seemed to be discussing the nature of his religion frankly with Doctors and students of religion, the blame for rthe violence might ought to rest on the guys that want it.
Is it really a reasonable alternative for us to remain totally PC in all speech eschewing all offence on all occasions ?
Even when it is the truth that is objectionable?
I bet that If I wanted to prove anyone was anti semitic or anti Islamic I could find some quote that I could carve out of its context and present in part to make the "proof" all I would need was someone who spoke a lot and plenty of time to parce his speeches.