Author Topic: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats  (Read 2764 times)

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sirs

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Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« on: November 30, 2006, 02:17:11 AM »
In the same Brassvane (that Tee actually was taking seriously, surprise, surprise), perhaps a little tit for tat is in order

Liberals Are Racist, Study Suggests
BY JAMES TARANTO
Friday, June 9, 2006


The Washington Post's Richard Morin reports on a study he conducted, along with Shanto Iyengar of Stanford University, that attempted to gauge whether people's attitudes toward Hurricane Katrina victims were colored by racial prejudice.

Participants in the study were asked to read an article about a Katrina victim called "Terry Miller," who could be either male or female; black, white or Latino (in the last case, he was renamed "Terry Medina"); and, if black, either light- or dark-skinned. Then they were asked to say how much government aid victims of the hurricane should receive, within a range of $200 to $1,200 a month and three to 18 months:

If race mattered, there would be a difference in the level of assistance favored by respondents who read an article about the white Terry Miller and the assistance favored by those who read about a black Terry Miller.

There was. People were willing to give assistance to a white victim, on average, for about 12 months. But for an African American victim, the average duration was a month shorter while the amount of aid was nearly the same, meaning that blacks would collect about $1,000 less than white victims.

Roger Clegg, on National Review Online, argues that they take a glass-is-half-empty approach:

There could have been as much as a 15-month difference, and there was only a 1-month difference; there could have been as much as a $1000-a-month difference, and there was only, at most, a $100-a-month difference. Doesn't sound like proof of a racist society to me.

We are skeptical of the entire enterprise of trying to measure something as intangible as racial attitudes. Clegg's criticism (with which we neither agree nor disagree) illustrates one reason why: Even if you assume that these numbers are meaningful, how much of a difference would constitute "proof of a racist society"? We can't think of an answer to the question that isn't entirely arbitrary.

Even if we assume that the disparities Morin and Iyengar find actually do mean what they think they do, there is an enormous systemic bias in their study, which they acknowledge, seemingly without grasping its significance, in their full write-up:

Approximately 2,300 people completed the experiment. As in our past studies, the sample was skewed heavily in the direction of Democrats and liberals--only 12 percent of the participants identified as Republican. Eighty-six percent were critical of President Bush's handling of Katrina. The sample was also highly educated--84% had completed at least a bachelor's degree. These features of the sample are especially important in light of the results we describe below.

Later they note that 86% of the survey participants were white. They don't say how the participants were chosen, but it's clear that they are not a representative sample of the U.S. population: They are whiter, much better educated, and much more liberal than the population as a whole.

In other words, if this study shows that the participants are racially biased, that doesn't prove that Americans are racially biased. At most it proves that well-educated liberal white Americans are. Morin and Iyengar seem to think that their study's skew in favor of WELWAs strengthens their argument:

People cannot help stereotyping on the basis of ethnicity despite their best efforts to act unbiased and egalitarian. As we noted at the outset, this particular sample of participants consisted of highly educated individuals who located themselves toward the liberal end of the political spectrum. Many of them live in and around the nation's capital, one of the more racially diverse and cosmopolitan areas of America. We suspect that this group would score at or very near the top of most measures of support for civil rights and racial equality. Yet their responses to Katrina were influenced by the mere inclusion of racial cues in news media coverage. The fact that this group awarded lower levels of hurricane assistance after reading about looting or after encountering an African-American family displaced by the hurricane is testimony to the persistent and primordial power of racial imagery in American life.

That is to say, their claim to have uncovered empirical evidence of racial bias throughout "American life" is based on the assumption that WELWAs are less biased than the population as a whole, or at least that they are not appreciably more biased. But it is quite plausible that WELWAs are more biased, especially having gone through a higher education system that places great emphasis on racial differences.

A real social scientist would test such assumptions rather than merely assert that they prove his conclusion. The study's most definitive finding, then, is that its authors are prejudiced against Americans who are not liberal and those who lack college degrees.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008497

 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 02:47:18 AM »
Liberals Are Racist, Study Suggests--II
Friday, June 23, 2006

Two weeks ago, we noted an article by the Washington Post's Richard Morin, who conducted a study along with Shanto Iyengar of Stanford University that purported to find that Americans' attitudes toward Katrina victims were colored by race, to the disadvantage of blacks.

We pointed out that the sample was highly skewed toward liberals and Democrats (as well as toward the well-educated and, to a lesser extent, toward whites), and said, "if this study shows that the participants are racially biased, that doesn't prove that Americans are racially biased. At most it proves that well-educated liberal white Americans are."

Now Morin has done a follow-up column, in which he shows that we were right:

As Iyengar and his colleagues subsequently dug deeper into these data, another finding emerged: Republicans consistently gave less aid, and gave over a shorter period of time, to victims regardless of race.

Democrats and independents were far more generous; on average, they gave Katrina victims on average more than $1,500 a month, compared with $1,200 for Republicans, and for 13 months instead of nine.

But for Democrats, race mattered--and in a disturbing way. Overall, Democrats were willing to give whites about $1,500 more than they chose to give to a black or other minority. (Even with this race penalty, Democrats still were willing to give more to blacks than those principled Republicans.) "Republicans are likely to be more stringent, both in terms of money and time, Iyengar said. "However, their position is 'principled' in the sense that it stems from a strong belief in individualism (as opposed to handouts). Thus their responses to the assistance questions are relatively invariant across the different media conditions. Independents and Democrats, on the other hand, are more likely to be affected by racial cues." . . .

Iyengar said he's not surprised by the latest findings: "This pattern of results matches perfectly an earlier study I did on race and crime" with Franklin D. Gilliam Jr. of UCLA. "Republicans supported tough treatment of criminals no matter what they encountered in the news. Others were more elastic in their position, coming to support more harsh measures when the criminal suspect they encountered was non-white."

Very interesting, and kudos to Morin and Iyengar for the follow-up. We should say, though, that although these results are consistent with our own prejudices about those on the liberal side of the political spectrum, we doubt this study comes anywhere near proving anything. This is for several reasons:

Although it's not specified how the survey participants were chosen, it seems clear that they are a self-selected rather than representative sample. The follow-up work corrects for political bias but apparently not for other biases (e.g., toward highly educated whites).

As we understand the description of the study, each individual participant saw either a white face or a black face (or another variant), not both. Thus the disparities found were between the averages of two different groups of people. It may be that the differences were the result of some unknown factor, whether random or systemic, that differentiates the two groups.

Even if we assume that the disparity is the result of liberals "being affected by racial cues," such cues do not necessarily reflect racist attitudes (in the classic sense of believing that blacks are inferior). It could be that liberals believe blacks are more resilient and thus need less help to recover, or that they believe (correctly) that blacks have lower incomes on average and thus need less to compensate for lost wages.

Also, we take issue with the characterization of Democrats as "generous" because they are willing to "give" more money to the hypothetical victims. Participants were not asked how much of their own money they were willing to contribute, but rather how much "government aid" they thought the victims should receive.

If Democrats are more eager to spend "government" money than Republicans are--and, with the possible exception of members of Congress, it is a commonplace that they are--does this mean that Democrats are more "generous"? Or does it mean that Republicans are more apt to think of government as spending their money, while Democrats think of it as other people's?


http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008497



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 03:45:07 AM »
Exelent!


It really is dangerous to use such surveys for proveing things proof requires controll of variables.


Indication though ,you can get indication and this indication that Conservatives are less racist than Liberals is not such a big surprise.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 09:58:53 AM »
Yeah, sure, the Opinion journal is never biased.

People are INDIVIDUALS, in any case, and contribute or do not contribute according to their own personal abilities and perceptions. You might as well do a survey on whether yogurt eaters are more racist than devotees of prunes.

It's all bullsh*t, Sirs.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 10:13:17 AM »
There was absolutely nothing random about the sampling of that survey.  It's meaningless bullshit.  The only effective way that I can think of to monitor racism in both partys would be to take a truly random sampling of each party and ask each sample the same  questions not necessarily related to Katrina victims. 

But why bother?  The success of the Republicans' "Southern Strategy" tells you all you need to know about which party the racists have embraced.

_JS

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 03:57:24 PM »
The fact that Trent Lott is in a leadership position and Sirs is upset about the loss of apartheid South Africa is pretty damning evidence to the contrary.
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sirs

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2006, 04:26:01 PM »
The fact that Trent Lott is in a leadership position and Sirs is upset about the loss of apartheid South Africa is pretty damning evidence to the contrary.

I am?  Wow.  so, an we expect any of that bipartisan condemnation directed at the left for their much greater overt examples of racism?.....all well and justified of course.   Well, I think I can already answer that one
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2006, 04:32:30 PM »
Of course not. When have I ever justified racism as acceptable from any political persuasion?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2006, 04:53:58 PM »
Of course not. When have I ever justified racism as acceptable from any political persuasion?

When it seems to be consistently 1 sided
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2006, 04:59:39 PM »
In other words, you have no examples of me accepting racism from leftists any more than from the right wing. In fact, I have pointed out instances where the left in Israel instituted very racist policies. You were simply too devoted to the Israeli government to agree.

Racism should not be tolerated based on party affiliation or any other ridiculous concept.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2006, 05:03:43 PM »
In other words, you have no examples of me accepting racism from leftists any more than from the right wing.

No, I have no examples of you condemning racists & racist rhetoric when it's coming from the left in this country.  Even when it's overt and pervasive
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Bombshell; Racists prefer Democrats
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2006, 05:06:50 PM »
Examples?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.