Author Topic: Company owner requires workers to carry firearms at the office  (Read 1037 times)

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hnumpah

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Company owner requires workers to have firearm at the office
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The owner of a small Georgia insurance company is requiring employees to get a weapons permit and then gives each of them a revolver to keep at the office
Associated Press By Lisa Marie Pane, Associated Press Mar 11, 2016 10:30 AM

ATLANTA (AP) -- The decision by the owner of a small insurance company to require his employees to carry firearms at the office has sparked a debate: Would having a gun on the job make you safer, or is it inviting violence into the workplace?

Lance Toland said his three offices, based at small airports in Georgia, haven't had problems with crime but "anyone can slip in these days if they want to. I don't have a social agenda here. I have a safety agenda."

When a longtime employee, a National Rifle Association-certified instructor who's been the company's unofficial security officer announced her retirement, Toland wanted to ensure the remaining employees were safe. He now requires each of them to get a concealed-carry permit, footing the $65 bill, and undergo training. He issues a Taurus revolver known as "The Judge" to each of them. The firearm holds five rounds, .410 shells that cast a spray of pellets like a shotgun.

"It is a weapon, and it is a lethal weapon," said Toland, whose company specializes in aviation insurance. "When a perpetrator comes into the home or the office, they have started a fire. And this is a fire extinguisher."

No employee balked at the mandate, he said. "They all embraced it 100 percent, and they said, you know, I'm tired of being afraid," Toland said.

An employer's legal standing to impose such a requirement depends on several factors, foremost whether the business is high risk, a convenience store or taxi company, for example, said Carin Burford, a labor lawyer in Birmingham, Alabama.

More than 400 people on average are killed in the workplace each year, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. Just last week, a gunman with a criminal record who had just been served with an order to stay away from his former girlfriend began a shooting spree, eventually landing at the lawn mower parts factory where he worked. Authorities say he killed three people and wounded 14 others before a police officer shot and killed him.

About half of U.S. states have laws allowing people to keep firearms in their cars at work. There are companies that allow employees to bring firearms to the office. But it's rare to hear of an employer making it a requirement.

Kevin Michalowski, executive editor of Concealed Carry Magazine, said he hasn't heard of any companies issuing a mandate, but he's increasingly hearing from companies, churches and schools seeking training so they're prepared to deal with a workplace shooting.

He said while workplace shootings don't happen every day, when they do happen, people should have the ability to protect themselves — particularly before police are able to respond.

"The gun-free-zone sign isn't going to stop anyone. In fact, it makes people more vulnerable," said Michalowski, who is a part-time officer in Wisconsin for a county sheriff's department and a rural police department. "The good people who could stop things are disarmed."

One person who isn't convinced is Charles G. Ehrlich, an attorney in California. He was working for the Pettit & Martin law firm in California on July 1, 1993, when Gian Luigi Ferri, a failed entrepreneur and former client of the firm, arrived at the high-rise office building with multiple weapons, killing eight people and injuring six before killing himself.

Ehrlich was lucky. A meeting he was attending went long, and he didn't end up down the hall in a conference room that was Ferri's first target. "I heard the shouting and the noise" but had just moments earlier left the floor.

"It's not like it is on TV or at the movies where the good guy just shoots the bad guy," said Ehrlich, the former president of the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "It's very difficult to shoot a gun accurately, even when you're not under pressure."

Ehrlich also worries about the pressure cooker that exists in many workplaces — and that arming more employees might actually lead to more workplace shootings.

"Conceivably, someone who was well-trained — an ex-Green Beret or something like that — could've run down the hall, pulled out a weapon and fired a shot," he said of the shooting at the firm. "But would he have prevented anyone from being killed? No. Unlike John Wayne who is always faster than the other guy, this guy got off the elevator and just started shooting."

Playing in the back of Toland's mind was something personal: A beloved uncle who had adopted him as a child was killed in 1979 during a nighttime robbery at the convenience store where he worked. Three men robbed him of less than $100. It was the first day he hadn't brought a firearm to the store.

Andrea Van Buren, an agent with Toland's firm for the past two months, was already comfortable with firearms. She carried a Glock nearly every day for the past decade and practices at a range every week.

When she hears about workplace shootings elsewhere, among her first thoughts is: "I'm glad it's not happening here and then the second part is, it could happen here, and then I think, at least I'm prepared," she said. "It's sad. It's heartbreaking."

The revolver Toland is providing his employees isn't exactly ideal for concealment. It weighs two pounds and is more than 9 inches long. By contrast, a Beretta Nano 9mm handgun is more than a third lighter and measures less than 6 inches. Van Buren said she's not bothered by the impracticality. "I liken it to, I have an office computer and I have an office gun."

She understands that not everyone wants to work for a company that requires having a weapon. "Gun ownership isn't for everybody. It's a huge responsibility," she said. "If you're carrying, you've got to be willing to use it."

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kimba1

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Re: Company owner requires workers to carry firearms at the office
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2016, 03:44:14 PM »
Thats gonna be trickier in my job since I am a security guard and alot of my coworker are armed. One actually did threaten to shoot his supervisor. Pretty much us being armed would still have casualties. Cant say it would minimize since he known who to shoot first.

From my experience in this I will cast doubt about coworkers not seeing a person going postal early on. I saw some serious obvious signs months almost years earlier.

He was not a quite guy who keeps to himself

sirs

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Re: Company owner requires workers to carry firearms at the office
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016, 04:25:51 PM »
I don't agree with a mandate to carry a firearm, unless you're in law enforcement.  The whole issue behind the 2nd amendment is consistent with the rest of the Bill of Rights, that of freedom, not mandates.  That said, this is a private company and I have no problem if this is a work related requirement, along the lines of a dress code or some specific conduct.  Any person that does not wish to abide by it, can simply leave, and seek employment elsewhere.

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Plane

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Re: Company owner requires workers to carry firearms at the office
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2016, 06:30:28 PM »
  None of the employees objected?

   Must be Georgia.

    This is very likely to never make a difference.

    Wandering shooters are not all that common perhaps it would  never be the fate of these offices to have the problem that a firearm is good to help with.

     But this is an insurance company , I bet they never sell insurance by telling people that most clients never cash in.

      If a shooting ever does occur I give nine of ten that having the entire office armed will have a positive effect. I don't want to say 100% because friendly fire happens to well practiced professionals, mistakes can be reduced , but the mistake free human has not been invented yet.

   As to the choice of "the Judge" it isn't a bad choice if the venue is inside a small office. it is pretty small for the power it packs , but is intended for rapid effect in close quarters.

http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=41


Caliber: .45/.410 (2.5" chamber)   
Grips: Ribber     
Capacity: 5     
Weight: 28.2 oz   
Barrel Length: 2.5"


There are several versions of "The Judge" available this model is the newest the "Public Defender".