Start the draft, or get out

[yellow_crane]

An individual lives in his nation and has contract with that nation even if he doesn't understand it.

Someone who hates his nation , or someone who doesn't want to serve his nation because without hate he just consider it wrong, really needs to renounce that contract and his citizenship.

The benefits of citizenship for most of us , most of the time, are worth the duty's that come with the benefits.


For Americans the duty includes being available for the draft , jury duty and taxes.

I hate the taxes , but I pay them and fight their growth through the system , when my favorite candidates loose I accept the result as I wish my opponent would if my side had won.

Jury duty is miserable , but I have done it and probably will again , the operationof my society requires that this work be done and I honor the contract of my citizenship by reporting as required. People who don't register to vote seldom get called to jury duty , this strikes me as appropriate.

Military service seems like a simular duty to me , I volenteered because there was no draft at the time. I like our form of government and I beleive that the people who enjoy its citizenship have dutys to perform which meet the needs of the society we have to keep its government strong .

Of course one of the cheif advantages of our system of government is that it respects the rights of the individual to a great degree and can be improved to safeguard indvidual rights even better . This consideration of our rights is moot if the goernment grows too weak to be their guardian .

 


I disagree. 

People born in this country are its citizens, and even noncompliance with draft, taxes and jury duty are choices. 

You seem to want to cull the ranks, removing the undesirables, based on your own chitlist of merit.

Where have I heard that before?

Communism, fascism . . . but not Americanism.

[Plane]

I disagree. 

People born in this country are its citizens, and even noncompliance with draft, taxes and jury duty are choices. 

You seem to want to cull the ranks, removing the undesirables, based on your own chitlist of merit.

Where have I heard that before?

Communism, fascism . . . but not Americanism.

A sense of duty is un-American?


Where did I menion culling?

If someone chooses to shirk his responsibility as a citizen hasn't he self selected as a rejector of citizensip?

[Xavier_Onassis]

No, he hasn't.

I haven't signed any social contract. Have you?

I would refuse to sign any such contract that would obligate me to fight in colonial adventurism, which is what Iraq is.

If you don't duty, all you have to do is show up for it and start passing out pamphlets you have had printed up from the Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA).

That, or you tell the judge "Your Honor, you can't unring a bell", when he asks if you can ignore testimony that one side has had objected to and that objection sustained.

Either of these works fine, and is entirely legal.

And no, I haven't done either.

[Plane]

No, he hasn't.

I haven't signed any social contract. Have you?

I would refuse to sign any such contract that would obligate me to fight in colonial adventurism, which is what Iraq is.

If you don't duty, all you have to do is show up for it and start passing out pamphlets you have had printed up from the Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA).

That, or you tell the judge "Your Honor, you can't unring a bell", when he asks if you can ignore testimony that one side has had objected to and that objection sustained.

Either of these works fine, and is entirely legal.

And no, I haven't done either.

As a citizen the government owes you ... nothing?

There is a contract and the terms are under negotiation constantly.

But there are terms.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I pay the government taxes. That is what I owe the government. I pay them diligently. Last year I paid the Feds over $5,000, the state 6.5% sales tax, and the county $875 property tax.

The government owes me police protection, street lights and pavement, among other things.

I have never agreed to fight in a colonial war, and I won't do it, either. If there is a contract saying that I must do this, I have never agreed to it.

I have paid into Social Security since I was 16, and I expect the government to pay me starting next year.

[Plane]

I pay the government taxes. That is what I owe the government. I pay them diligently. Last year I paid the Feds over $5,000, the state 6.5% sales tax, and the county $875 property tax.

The government owes me police protection, street lights and pavement, among other things.

I have never agreed to fight in a colonial war, and I won't do it, either. If there is a contract saying that I must do this, I have never agreed to it.

I have paid into Social Security since I was 16, and I expect the government to pay me starting next year.

There you go , you are in a contract , you even like some of it.

When did any signiture exchange make the government owe you what it owes you?

[Xavier_Onassis]

here you go , you are in a contract , you even like some of it.

When did any signiture exchange make the government owe you what it owes you?
===========================================================
Er, when I applied for my Social Security Card, I signed a form, and received a description of benefits.

When I applied for Medicare, I also was given a form to sign and received a description of benefits.

I once had a draft card, but I was forced to sign it under duress.

I secretly disposed of it long ago. Or maybe I burned it on my 45th birthday. I don't recall.

[Plane]

here you go , you are in a contract , you even like some of it.

When did any signiture exchange make the government owe you what it owes you?
===========================================================
Er, when I applied for my Social Security Card, I signed a form, and received a description of benefits.

When I applied for Medicare, I also was given a form to sign and received a description of benefits.

I once had a draft card, but I was forced to sign it under duress.

I secretly disposed of it long ago. Or maybe I burned it on my 45th birthday. I don't recall.

My Children got SS numbers before they learned to read.
For a person who never signs anything the gobvernment owes nothing?

Perhaps you are not so socalist after all?

[Xavier_Onassis]

My Children got SS numbers before they learned to read.
For a person who never signs anything the gobvernment owes nothing?

Perhaps you are not so socalist after all?

===================================================
I fail to see what you getting a SSN for your children has to do with my politics.

The point is that no one signs any form agreeing to be drafted in whatever foreign colonial adventure some bozo po;litician decides is necessary to attack to "defend thre country".

I agree that if the country is actually invaded, there is an obligation to defend it. But Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada and even WWI had nothing to do with this.