Author Topic: We'll be in Iraq forever  (Read 1294 times)

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Lanya

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We'll be in Iraq forever
« on: November 26, 2007, 02:06:47 PM »
White House Releases "Principles" for Permanent Iraqi Presence
By Spencer Ackerman - November 26, 2007, 11:12AM

So it begins. After years of obfuscation and denial on the length of the U.S.'s stay in Iraq, the White House and the Maliki government have released a joint declaration of "principles" for "friendship and cooperation." Apparently President Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki signed the declaration during a morning teleconference.

Naturally, the declaration is euphemistic, and doesn't refer explicitly to any U.S. military presence.

    -- Iraq's leaders have asked for an enduring relationship with America, and we seek an enduring relationship with a democratic Iraq. We are ready to build that relationship in a sustainable way that protects our mutual interests, promotes regional stability, and requires fewer Coalition forces.

    -- In response, this Declaration is the first step in a three-step process that will normalize U.S.-Iraqi relations in a way which is consistent with Iraq's sovereignty and will help Iraq regain its rightful status in the international community ? something both we and the Iraqis seek. The second step is the renewal of the Multinational Force-Iraq's Chapter VII United Nations mandate for a final year, followed by the third step, the negotiation of the detailed arrangements that will codify our bilateral relationship after the Chapter VII mandate expires.


A "democratic Iraq" here means the Shiite-led Iraqi government. The current political arrangement will receive U.S. military protection against coups or any other internal subversion. That's something the Iraqi government wants desperately: not only is it massively unpopular, even among Iraqi Shiites, but the increasing U.S.-Sunni security cooperation strikes the Shiite government -- with some justification -- as a recipe for a future coup.

Notice also the timetable. The U.S. and Iraq will negotiate another year-long United Nations mandate for foreign troops in Iraq, which will expire (I think) in late December 2008. According to today's declaration, following the forthcoming renewal at the U.N., "we will begin negotiation of a framework that will govern the future of our bilateral relationship." That means that during Bush's last year in office, the administration will work out the terms of the U.S.'s stay in Iraq in order to, at the very least, seriously constrain the next administration's options for ending the U.S. presence. Even if Bush doesn't take the audacious step of signing a so-called Status of Forces Agreement -- the basic document for garrisoning U.S. forces on foreign soil -- while he's a lame duck, the simple fact of negotiations will create a diplomatic expectation that his successor will find difficult to reverse.

The White House is also taking steps to argue that there's nothing unusual about what it intends for Iraq. Here's that fact sheet again:

    The Declaration Sets The U.S. And Iraq On A Path Toward Negotiating Agreements That Are Common Throughout The World

    The U.S. has security relationships with over 100 countries around the world, including recent agreements with nations such as Afghanistan and former Soviet bloc countries.

Not stated, of course, is that Iraq would represent a military commitment opposed by most of the American people. Nor that it would represent codifying an unpopular war into an unpopular, indefinite war. Nor even what that commitment would entail. Here's the "principle" behind future U.S.-Iraq security ties:

    To support the Iraqi government in training, equipping, and arming the Iraqi Security Forces so they can provide security and stability to all Iraqis; support the Iraqi government in contributing to the international fight against terrorism by confronting terrorists such as Al-Qaeda, its affiliates, other terrorist groups, as well as all other outlaw groups, such as criminal remnants of the former regime; and to provide security assurances to the Iraqi Government to deter any external aggression and to ensure the integrity of Iraq's territory.

In other words, we're staying in Iraq to defend Nouri al-Maliki against all enemies, foreign and domestic. What will the presidential candidates say about this?


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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2007, 02:43:30 PM »
Constant war is good for the economy.
The economy needs to be in good shape for the oligarchy to make the big bucks.
Ergo, we need a constant enemy, as in 1984, as in the Cold War, so people will continue to be scared sufficiently shitless enough to buy crap they don't need with money they have not earned to impress people they don't know.

Legalizing casinos helps people become desperate, as it drains the resources of a sufficiently large portion of them so as to make them worry about how they will have to work their butts off to make the note on the car they leased, or to not get foreclosed on the house they bought.

But casinos aren't really enough. We need an ongoing war, with deaths at sizeable intervals. The troops in South Korea are hardly ever shot at anymore, and the ones in Germany, never.

Hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and volcanoes are good for scaring people, but they are hard to arrange, and affect limited populations.

Perhaps in the future, the oligarchy can get better control over natural disasters and we won't need to send our troops off on foreign adventures.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2007, 03:15:27 PM »
Damn those foreign entanglements.

Next thing you know we'll be joining the UN.

Richpo64

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2007, 03:21:50 PM »
We're still in Japan, German, Kosovo, the Phillipines, South Korea ....

The idea we'll be in Iraq for some time shouldn't come as a surprise to those of us who want to win the war on terror. Or anyone for that matter. Even the democrats are saying we'll be there for some time.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2007, 05:43:45 PM »
of course we will

but it won't be in a combat role any more than it is a combat role in
Germany, Japan, Korea, and tons of others places we have bases.

i know you leftist don't like it but we are a superpower and will remain so
we will continue to protect US interests worldwide from our military bases around the world
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2007, 11:45:49 PM »
We'll be in Iraq forever...

And of course, we've been LONG gone out of Germany, Korea, Kosovo, etc., etc., etc.  Right, Lanya?

 ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2007, 11:46:17 PM »
we will continue to protect US interests worldwide from our military bases around the world
   

Yeah, then shut the Hell up about how you are "4 less government"

The deal on Iraq was that they would welcome us with open arms and oin a couple of years they would be this flourishing, wonderful democracy.

That is what Cheney and Juniorbush said.

There is no 'War on Terror" any more than there ever was a "war on drugs" or a "war on poverty". You can';t fight a war on an abstraction.

The way to control Al Qaeda is with police, not bazillions of soldiers.

And get this straight: IT IS NOT OUR OIL.
It will NEVER be our oil.

At the most, it will be ExxonMobil's oil, and they will screw us for the same $5.00 a gallon that OPEC will.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2007, 11:57:05 PM »
we will continue to protect US interests worldwide from our military bases around the world  Yeah, then shut the Hell up about how you are "4 less government"

Someone want to explain the concept of what less government actually means to those who support the Constitution, to Xo?  The point being here, it's pretty pathetic to decry the notion of some extended military involvement in a vital location to American interests/security, when so many others don't seem to garner the same condemnation.


And get this straight: IT IS NOT OUR OIL.  It will NEVER be our oil.

And of course, we're all waiting for this "obvious" evidence of yours that demonstrates anything other than it is Iraqi's oil     ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 12:05:06 AM »
And get this straight: IT IS NOT OUR OIL.
It will NEVER be our oil.


I will go along with that , but who isn't?

Quote
The way to control Al Qaeda is with police, not bazillions of soldiers.


After Al Queda takes over a country , they are the police.

Quote

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2007, 08:25:19 AM »
After Al Queda takes over a country , they are the police.

========================================
First, Al Qaeda is not going to take over Iraq.
Second, when Al Qaeda had a a deal with the Afghani Taliban, they were not the police. So this is just bullsh*t.

You clowns are really good at getting your bowels in an uproar over wacko speculation that has no chance of happening.

If it is Iraq's oil, then let Iraq guard it. Perhaps they could hire mercenaries like Blackwater and pay them with THEIR tax revenues.

If this country has to control TWO countries or THREE countries in lieu of just the one specified by the Constitution, then that cannot do anything but lead to MORE government.

The Iraqi Constitution states that all Iraqis have a right to free healthcare. So does Israeli law. So why should I have to pay taxes for this, as opposed to pay taxes for something that benefits other Americans and myself?

How many Americas4lessgovernment are there, now? Have you reached the state of becoming qualified to refer to yourself in the plural now?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2007, 11:32:11 AM »
Still haven't grasped what "less Government" means, do you Xo? (ironic as you reference the Constitutions of each country mentioned, 2 that do provide for UHC, and ours that does NOT)  Still haven't been able to provide any examples what-so-ever that anyone who supports the war believes the oil is anyone else's but Iraq's.  That's ok.  I'm sure you have positive attributes somewhere else.  I'm betting you know to put your pants on before your shoes
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2007, 12:57:34 PM »
Israel has no constitution. It's handy, because that way there are no constitutional rights tpo worry about. But the do have laws.

If the US if guarding Iraq's oil, someone in the US thinks that is needs guarding by someone other than Iraqis. It is so nice that us, with our smaller Christian government stands ever ready to remain tiny and wee and still govern two (or three, if you count Afghanistan) countries.


I suggest that if "Christians" and "for less government", they should realize that the more people governed and defended, the larger the government that is needed.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: We'll be in Iraq forever
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2007, 01:35:31 PM »
Still haven't grasped what "less Government" means, do you Xo? (hint, check out our own Constitution)  And still haven't been able to provide any examples what-so-ever that anyone who supports the war believes the oil is anyone else's but Iraq's.  At least you're consistent.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle