Author Topic: one lucky McCainiac  (Read 1087 times)

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Plane

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one lucky McCainiac
« on: June 26, 2008, 06:59:23 PM »
"...this week you have a unique chance to see it up close and in person.

We are re-launching our popular "Ride the Bus" contest this week to give one lucky McCainiac and a friend the chance to spend a day on the Straight Talk Express with John McCain. If you make a contribution of any amount before midnight June 30th, you'll be entered to win.

http://www.johnmccain.com/ridethebus "


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: one lucky McCainiac
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 07:14:43 PM »
thanks plane
i guess it is time to break out the ole check book anyway
it would be kind of cool riding on the McCain Express with an american hero
hey if I win I'll have you to thank
and maybe, just maybe Bobby Jindal would be riding the bus too
now there's a guy that will one day kick some serious ass!



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: one lucky McCainiac
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 07:27:27 PM »
Ooo! Look! A non-White guy CU4 ca get excited about!

I think of McCain as more a guy who dropped bombs on folks until he got shot down and then became a victim.
I don't see dropping bombs on people as heroic. Dangerous, perhaps. Heroic, no.
I don't see being a victim as being heroic, either.

He's more like a celebrity. A very old celebrity. Like George Burns, but without the cigar or the talent.
Or Gracie.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: one lucky McCainiac
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 07:45:56 PM »
Ooo! Look! A non-White guy CU4 ca get excited about

God your racism gets old. It is really sickening and pathetic but not unexpected.
Of course someone of your age is from an era of racism.

"I don't see dropping bombs on people as heroic"

Yeah the young American guys in WW2 that braved all kinds of attacks to
bomb Hitler's Nazi Army and rid the world of such a menace were not heroic!



Lawrence M. Delancey, 0-41351, Army Air Forces, United States Army, for gallantry in action while serving as a pilot of a B-17 bomber on a mission over Germany  15 October 1944.  Immediately after bombs away Lt. Delancey's aircraft was hit by flak.  A shell pierced the chin turret and exploded in the nose, killing the bombardier and destroying practically all the instruments.  The entire nose section was shorn off and all that remained was a tangled mass of instruments, wires and sheet metal.  With the oxygen equipment ruined and a sub-zero gale rushing through the plane, Lt. Delancey descended to a lower altitude and headed out of enemy territory.  Flying at reduced speed and unable to take proper protective measures with his off-balanced plane, he was subjected to every conceivable type of ground fire.   By sheer determination and tenacity he managed to bring the battered aircraft over the home base.  Without proper brakes Lt. Delancey climaxed this miraculous feat of flying skill and ability by accomplishing a safe landing.  His actions under conditions which would have caused a less courageous pilot to abandon his aircraft are in keeping with the finest traditions of the Army Air Forces.  Entered the military service from Oregon.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: one lucky McCainiac
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 08:18:37 PM »
So you are suggesting that bombing North Vietnam, that had no air force at all, was as brave as bombing Germany, which had a rather fearsome Luftwaffe? Or that somehow bombing North Vietnam was actually defending the USA in the same way that bombing German munitions factories?

Or are you proposing we elect Lt. Delancey?

Dropping bombs on people that you cannot see from the air, so as to determine whether they are actually a threat to your country or just civilians trying to stay alive  is rather like sniping at shadows. One can't be sure whether one is risking his neck for the fatherland or just wiping out some innocent men, women or cute little babies.

I do not question that involves a degree of bravery, but hey, the 9-11 suicide pilots were pretty brave from that point of view, knowing that they were going to die and pleasing Allah at the same time.

In WWII, there was a threat to the people of the US. I suppose that if the Germans conquered England, there was a fairly high probability they'd eventually attack America, if not just to mop up the remaining Jews.

In Vietnam, there was no threat to anyone in the US: it was just a dumb colonial war and if you died fighting it, it turns out that you died for nothing. If you got shot down dropping bombs on Charlie, you just got shot down in vain. If you were captured and tortured by Charlie, well, you were tortured for diddly-squat.

So, no, McCain was an unlucky dude. I'm sorry the fools in the US government jerked the servicemen around like that for no good reason, just as I am sorry thousands of poor Americans who joined the services because it was the best job or the only job around are now maimed beyond repair, doomed to sit in wheelchairs or walk on crutches or wear prosthetics for the rerst of their lives just so Rummy and Cheney and Juniorbush could strut about and play Chicken with Saddam using the bodies of the servicemen rather than their own.

He's not a hero.

There is no really good reason to elect a hero.

We didnt elect Audie Murphy, unless the Oscar counts.

Corporal Adolf Hitler was quite heroic defending the Reich, and it wasn't even really his own Vaderland. Imagine how brave you had to be to get an Iron Cross for a poor Austrian lad. But still, it didn't make him an ideal candidate to run the country. The Germans lost something like 16 million countrymen following him.

So no, I'm not voting for any heroes. I think we need a good administrator.

Not some aged dude that sucked up to Juniorbush for the past eight years and seems to really enjoy the company of lobbyists.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 08:25:13 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: one lucky McCainiac
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2008, 11:27:06 PM »
XO it pleases me to no end to see your views on Senator John McCain's service to his country are no where near mainstream America as are most of your views. I only can pray Obama will utter the same non-sense, but of course he is not such a fool. [i]

"but Given Barack Obama's lack of significant accomplishment in anything other than selling books and making speeches, it is hardly surprising that he and his followers would regard McCain's most distinctive service as a threat to Obama's ambition. It is also apparent that most Obama supporters have no real idea of what McCain did as a Navy officer that sets him apart from so many of his fellow veterans.

On October 26, 1967, Lieutenant Commander John McCain was shot down during his twenty-third mission in an A-4 Skyhawk bomber over Hanoi. Commander McCain was on that mission as part of his long service to the United States; he graduated from the US Naval Academy at Annapolis in 1958, and remained on active duty despite having his plane literally shot out from under him in an accidental missile discharge from another plane on the deck of the USS Forrestal earlier that year.

The destruction of his jet caused McCain serious injuries. He broke bones in both arms, one leg, and landed in a lake. Once he reached shore, the already injured McCain was attacked and beaten by North Vietnamese soldiers, one using a rifle butt to dislocate hs shoulder while another bayonetted him. He was denied medical treatment for four days, during which time he was beaten and interrogated using real torture methods, not the stuff liberals like to call 'torture' now. McCain refused to give information beyond his name, rank, and serial number. It was only when the North Vietnamese realized that McCain's father was a senior Admiral that he received medical treatment, and it was not much even there. No anesthesia or antibiotics were used, and the bones were not even set for another half-week.

Up to this point, John McCain's story is that of an honorable man who suffered from conditions of war and cruel abuse. What follows is where we see his heroism.

The North Vietnamese understood that Commander McCain's father was Admiral McCain, and from the beginning tried to use this for propaganda purposes. While men like John Kerry played the system in order to go home early from the war, Commander McCain repeatedly refused special treatment and offers to be set free ahead of men he knew had been longer in captivity. He also refused attempts by the North Vietnamese to use him in propaganda films, and for this was designated for "special treatment", a regimen of regular torture and deprivation that killed most men who suffered it. In the first six weeks of his imprisonment, McCain lost 50 pounds and temporarily the use of his arms and legs; when he was finally allowed to share a cell with two other officers, his condition was so grave that they did not expect him to survive for more than a week. His fellow officers nursed McCain to somewhat better health, and for this were assigned to different quarters. McCain again refused to cooperate with the North Vietnamese and he was locked in a muddy room with no windows, a tin roof and only two holes drilled in to keep him from suffocating, and McCain was kept there for two years.

Unknown to the Communists, McCain had already started his work from the inside. He had memorized the names of all 335 men he knew to be prisoners in North Vietnam, and when Major Norris Overly, USAF, was released he carried McCain's information with him. Even in prison, John McCain continued to serve his country.

In mid-1968, the North Vietnamese decided that if they released McCain, it would not only show them as merciful but suggest that American 'elites' expected to be treated better than ordinary soldiers. But Commander McCain consistently refused to play along, refusing to be released unless every man who had served as long as him was also released, and refusing on all occasions to say a single bad thing about the United States or the war effort. Despite his solitary confinement, McCain used a tap code to make contact with Ernie Brace, a civilian pilot shot down over Laos. Brace had been badly abused by the Communists and was in bad shape emotionally. McCain worked to restore Brace's spirit and confidence, and in so doing bolstered his own.

In June of 1968, the Communists again tried to talk McCain into accepting special treatment, and in return McCain said he'd be glad to go - after all the men he knew had been waiting longer. They tried again in July, after Mccain's father became CINCPAC. McCain again refused, for which he was beaten, his ribs cracked and one of his arms rebroken, and after which he was left bound between beating sessions for another four days. To shame him, the Communists left McCain naked and unfed.

McCain knew what could happen in the prisons, like Dick Stratton's being burned with cigarettes and his fingernails pulled. He knew men who had been beaten to death, like Ed Atterberry. Punishment in a Communist prison was brutal and swift, yet even so McCain continued to resist his captors, tapping out communication and encouragement to other prisoners, as a true officer leads his men. Commander McCain was beaten for refusing to lie about conditions in the prison, for resisting the Communists' propaganda programs, for communicating with other prisoners, and often for no reason other than he was a man they could not defeat, could never own. McCain refused to meet with antiwar delegations, refused to cooperate with nations like France who supported the Communists, and always - always - refused to accept anything that was not provided for all his fellow prisoners. McCain was tortured for holding church services, for praying, for singing the National Anthem, for refusing to admit "war crimes", and for cheering when Nixon ordered the bombing of Hanoi. McCain was no Superman, he felt every burn and cut and bruise and scrape of bone and tearing of ligament. Yet over and over and over again, he chose to accept torture rather than put himself ahead of his fellow prisoners, or his country.

On March 14, 1973, John McCain was finally released by North Vietnam, as one of the final prisoners to return home. He faced months of surgery and physical therapy to rebuild his body, but his spirit was unbroken and his mission fulflled. Whatever one thinks of John McCain's politics, he was and is a hero, and anyone who cannot admit that is a poor shell of a human being, too dismal to count as a true person, let alone an American." [/i]
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: one lucky McCainiac
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 11:46:13 PM »
So we need to elect this old dude because he was tortured?

I think you need to reevaluate what a president is supposed to do. I regard you to be clueless. Utterly clueless.

I admit, McCain didn't hide in the Texas National Guard or  go AWOL like Juniorbush, but we need someone who actually gives a sh*t about the people of this country and not a handful zillionaire fatcats. McCain is NOT that man.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."