Who is arming the insurgents?

[Lanya]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/world/middleeast/10weapons.html?hp&ex=1165813200&en=c34b12f8e339f476&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Plane]

“I bought this for $450 last year,” he said of the rifle. “Now it costs $650. The prices keep going up.”



So these wepons are growing scarcer?


Would a drop in prices be a good news?


Hahahahahahahahahahahhaha

Take the good news , call it bad.

[Plane]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6539945


Why are AK-47s more expensive in Iraq than they used to be ?

Why are Iriquis paying more than the worlds going rate for small arms?


I really thought there were plenty there already , and I also thought that it was not hard to smuggle arms in .

If prices are riseing steeply this is a bad sign of what?

[Lanya]

You neatly avoided answering my question.

Did you miss that we are sending the guns?  And they're not showing up where they're supposed to.  They're showing up in these bazaars and little shops.  They are going to be used, many times, against us.  I don't give a fig what the price of the gun is.

[Amianthus]

Did you miss that we are sending the guns?  And they're not showing up where they're supposed to.  They're showing up in these bazaars and little shops.  They are going to be used, many times, against us.  I don't give a fig what the price of the gun is.

Seems to me that we're giving them to the Iraqi Security Forces and it's the Iraqi's that are selling them.

[Lanya]

Yes, it looks like that's what's going on.

My point is that  we are arming the insurgents.   At least this looks to be the case.  And that is horrible.

[Amianthus]

My point is that  we are arming the insurgents.   At least this looks to be the case.  And that is horrible.

No, we're arming the Iraqi security forces. The Iraqi security forces are arming the insurgents.

And if you want to follow the chain of arms, then you should go back further and say the Austrians, Germans, and Russians are arming the insurgents, since they're Austrian, German, and Russian arms.

[Plane]

Yes, it looks like that's what's going on.

My point is that  we are arming the insurgents.   At least this looks to be the case.  And that is horrible.

You are odboviousbly wrong.

Note the price going up.

These arms are growing more scarce and valuable , if otherwise the price woould drop.

Anecdotal evidence of a handfull of guns sounds bad , but for all we know every single gun that was misappropriated was mentioned twice in that article, anecdoteal evidence is limited that way.

The Price of the guns is very key , you have found that in Iraq the citizens are paying four times the world's going rate for an AK-47 , the going price is an indicator of scaricty that depends on conditions and is not anecdoteal.

[Lanya]

The going price could also be an indicator of how bad, very very bad, conditions are in Iraq now.

Roundup of violence in Iraq - 10 December
By Mohammed al Awsy
McClatchy Newspapers

Violence . 10th / 12 /06 . Baghdad .

· at 9 o'clock this morning an IED exploded on an Iraqi military patrol in yarmouk area , 3 sildiers were injured .

· at 9 o'clock this morning 3 beheaded bodies were found in al huriyah area northern Baghdad .

· this morning clashes between unknown gunmen and al janabat tribe in al amil area western Baghdad , 5civilians were killed and 6 others were injured .

· in al jihad area western Baghdad unknown gunmen strormed into 2 houses killing killing a father with his 3 sons and the second house 5 brothers from one family were killed by this gang .

· today 60 dead bodies were found in Baghdad , some of them were tortured and handcuffed , 12 were found in different places in amil area , 9 in different place of al jihad , 5 in hurriyah , 6 different places of shoala , 8 in different places of mansour , 3 bayaa , 3 dora , 3 ghazaliyah , 2 haifa street , 1 kadhumia , 1 khadhraa , 1 adil , 1 saidiyah , 2 rashad , 1 kamaliyah , 1 new Baghdad and 1 in sader city .

diyala province .

· according to the coordination centre in diyala province said this morning that the terrorist groups killed 3 civilians in baquba near the main bus station and this was done by silencer .

· according to an iraqi military source from the 3rd brigade of the 5th division of the iraqi army said that a force from 3rd brigade arrested a former officer from the former iraqi intelligence called yassen khalil shahab and other 50 wanted people in a raid in daynia village southern baladroos 45km eastern baquba .

· according to a security and health source from khalis hospital 15km northern baquba that one of the armed groups have killed 4 grocers [ sheaats] in jididat al shat area between baquba and Baghdad near mohammed sakran grave yard .

· according to a security source at the coordination centre in diyala province that one of the terrorists group killed 2 civilians and injured another 6 when they were moving their furniture from one place to another because of threats , 2 of the injured people were 2 children under the age of six .

· according to a military source from diyala province that one local AMEER in diyala province was arrested and he is called SALEH ABED AL MIJAMAAIY and no further information were given .

· clashes in al khalis town 15km noethren baquba in al zikum area between unknown gunmen and a forces from al salam battalion of the iraqi army which let to the killing of 4 gunmen and arrested another 4 and one of them was injured .

KARKUK province .

A group of terrorist opened their fire from a civil car towards a bakery in al akhdhar neighborhood in karkuk , one of the workers was killed . According to a police source from karkuk police said that the worker at the bakery was a young 15years old boy called muslim najim and was shot directly on the head and he is a tukuman sheaat .

NAJAF province .

· According to the media manager of najaf province [ ahmed deaabil ] said that the police in najaf arrested a gang specialized in killing and kidnapping and were arrested in a house in al wafaa area 4km north of najaf , this house was used to imprison and killing innocent people and bury them at this house and the latest victim was a girl working with the one of the local council members she was kidnapped last weak and was found with the other bodies which was found in that house .

· According to the same source said that unknown gunmen assassin brigadier humam nori ibraheem head of the customs in najaf and according to colonel ali nomas the media spokesman of the security forces in najaf said that the brigadier was killed with his brother working as a general at the ministry of interior when unknown gunmen stormed to their house in baghdad and killed both of them .

Babylon province .

According to captain muthana ahmed the spokesman of Babylon police said that the Iraqi police patrol found 3 car bombs not detonated at the industrial area in hilla city .

BASRA province .

According to an aye witness in al khalila area southern basra that one civilian was killed and 5 others were injured 4 of them are children from one family when a mortar shell fail on their house and according to sheikh ahmed al janabi who is the victims neighbor said that the father of that family was killed immediately and the others were badly injured.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16210937.htm

[BT]

The going price could also be an indicator of how bad, very very bad, conditions are in Iraq now.

I'll go along with Plane and his supply and demand analogy.

[sirs]

The going price could also be an indicator of how bad, very very bad, conditions are in Iraq now.

I'll go along with Plane and his supply and demand analogy.

Makes much more logical sense, though it doesn't apparently include the Bush is an evil-moron-diety angle

[Plane]

The going price could also be an indicator of how bad, very very bad, conditions are in Iraq now.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16210937.htm

I don't feel hurt that people in bad neighborhoods buy guns.

The guys that want to make IEDs are not makeing them out of AK-47s.

I would want to have a rifle in order to make it a little more difficult tro make my body one of the ones found headless down at the dump.

It is perfectly leagal for each household in Iraq to own an AK-47 this is their version of the second admendment and I am supportive.

The people makeing trouble in Iraq do not need to pay cash for a pistol , they are issued one before they leave Syria or Iran.