Author Topic: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem  (Read 1337 times)

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sirs

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By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« on: October 25, 2010, 01:52:05 PM »
leave it to Kruggy to push the hard left talking point, and yet another reason Obama's #'s are so horrible, as even his hard core liberal base is fed up.

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Falling Into the Chasm
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: October 24, 2010


This is what happens when you need to leap over an economic chasm ? but either can?t or won?t jump far enough, so that you only get part of the way across.

If Democrats do as badly as expected in next week?s elections, pundits will rush to interpret the results as a referendum on ideology. President Obama moved too far to the left, most will say, even though his actual program ? a health care plan very similar to past Republican proposals, a fiscal stimulus that consisted mainly of tax cuts, help for the unemployed and aid to hard-pressed states ? was more conservative than his election platform.

A few commentators will point out, with much more justice, that Mr. Obama never made a full-throated case for progressive policies, that he consistently stepped on his own message, that he was so worried about making bankers nervous that he ended up ceding populist anger to the right.

But the truth is that if the economic situation were better ? if unemployment had fallen substantially over the past year ? we wouldn?t be having this discussion. We would, instead, be talking about modest Democratic losses, no more than is usual in midterm elections.

The real story of this election, then, is that of an economic policy that failed to deliver. Why? Because it was greatly inadequate to the task.

When Mr. Obama took office, he inherited an economy in dire straits ? more dire, it seems, than he or his top economic advisers realized. They knew that America was in the midst of a severe financial crisis. But they don?t seem to have taken on board the lesson of history, which is that major financial crises are normally followed by a protracted period of very high unemployment.

If you look back now at the economic forecast originally used to justify the Obama economic plan, what?s striking is that forecast?s optimism about the economy?s ability to heal itself. Even without their plan, Obama economists predicted, the unemployment rate would peak at 9 percent, then fall rapidly. Fiscal stimulus was needed only to mitigate the worst ? as an ?insurance package against catastrophic failure,? as Lawrence Summers, later the administration?s top economist, reportedly said in a memo to the president-elect.

But economies that have experienced a severe financial crisis generally don?t heal quickly. From the Panic of 1893, to the Swedish crisis of 1992, to Japan?s lost decade, financial crises have consistently been followed by long periods of economic distress. And that has been true even when, as in the case of Sweden, the government moved quickly and decisively to fix the banking system.

To avoid this fate, America needed a much stronger program than what it actually got ? a modest rise in federal spending that was barely enough to offset cutbacks at the state and local level. This isn?t 20-20 hindsight: the inadequacy of the stimulus was obvious from the beginning.

Could the administration have gotten a bigger stimulus through Congress? Even if it couldn?t, would it have been better off making the case for a bigger plan, rather than pretending that what it got was just right? We?ll never know.

What we do know is that the inadequacy of the stimulus has been a political catastrophe. Yes, things are better than they would have been without the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act: the unemployment rate would probably be close to 12 percent right now if the administration hadn?t passed its plan. But voters respond to facts, not counterfactuals, and the perception is that the administration?s policies have failed.

The tragedy here is that if voters do turn on Democrats, they will in effect be voting to make things even worse.

The resurgent Republicans have learned nothing from the economic crisis, except that doing everything they can to undermine Mr. Obama is a winning political strategy. Tax cuts and deregulation are still the alpha and omega of their economic vision.

And if they take one or both houses of Congress, complete policy paralysis ? which will mean, among other things, a cutoff of desperately needed aid to the unemployed and a freeze on further help for state and local governments ? is a given. The only question is whether we?ll have political chaos as well, with Republicans? shutting down the government at some point over the next two years. And the odds are that we will.

Is there any hope for a better outcome? Maybe, just maybe, voters will have second thoughts about handing power back to the people who got us into this mess, and a weaker-than-expected Republican showing at the polls will give Mr. Obama a second chance to turn the economy around.

But right now it looks as if the too-cautious attempt to jump across that economic chasm has fallen short ? and we?re about to hit rock bottom.


What utter brilliance................not



(oh, and for Xo's edification....this too is an OP-ED.  It's merely the opinion of the author, and is not to be automatically referred to as a factoid)

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

R.R.

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 03:13:22 PM »
I'm sure Krugman is the first thing that Obama reads in the morning. Everybody else wraps their fish with it.

We already spent a trillion dollars on stimulus. We spent 4 to 6 trillion on ObamaCare, depending on the estimates. Billions were spent on that Omnibus bill. No jobs were created. Why would doing more of the same create any jobs? Even if it did create a handful of jobs it wouldn't be worth it to saddle future generations with that kind of debt. Why would pork barrel spending make a small business owner create a job anyway? It wouldn't. Obama has been taking lessons on job creation from Dick Blumenthal.

Obama shouldn't be given a second chance to cause futher damage. He needs to be thrown out of office.

sirs

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 05:14:42 PM »
Obama shouldn't be given a second chance to cause futher damage. He needs to be thrown out of office.

The Road to Serfdom

As you may know, The Road to Serfdom is the classic book written in the early 1940?s by Friedrich Von Hayek that defined the threat imposed by the unchecked growth of central government and the resulting loss of individual freedom and liberty. Folks, we are headed in that direction. This election will determine whether we surrender to the Washington oligarchy and the media elites or we reassert the values that have been the shining hallmark of this great country for over 200 years.

We have repeatedly been told that the next election is the most important of our lifetime. This time it's the truth. In fact, it may be the most critical election in America since 1860. In 2008, the nation elected a President and Congress committed to the wholesale expansion of government and the commensurate reduction in individual freedom. That may not be what people thought they were voting for, but that?s what they got. Any vote that leaves Congress in the hands of the Pelosi-Reid Democrats endorses that path. But a vote against the Democrats will repudiate their policies of invasive government and limitation of individual choice.

This simple belief was the catalyst of a popular movement that is now known as the Tea Party. These people didn?t have a strong political affiliation; they were just fed up with the expansion of government at every level ? by both parties. The real legacy of this election, a reaction to the insults, abuse, and baseless attacks on the Tea Party by the left and its media allies, is how its members were driven into the arms of the Republican Party, who welcomed them with a renewed faith in fiscal conservatism. The whole scenario speaks volumes about what constitutes both parties.

Tom Friedman, columnist for The New York Times, has for years been an intellectual guru for the left. In his September 28th column, he wrote: ?Leadership today is about how the U.S. government attracts and educates more of that talent and then enacts the laws, regulations and budgets that empower that talent to take its products and services to scale, sell them around the world ? and create jobs here in the process.? There is almost no consideration of the individual in this stunning statement, and yet it?s the fundamental basis of what they believe ? that government is the central point of any job creation.

Contrast that with what was said in the debate between Democrat Richard Blumenthal and Republican Linda McMahon, candidates for the Senate seat from Connecticut. When asked by Mrs. McMahon ?How do you create a job?? Mr. Blumenthal blabbered a 193-word answer. Mrs. McMahon responded ?Government, government, government. Government does not create jobs. It?s very simple how you create jobs. An entrepreneur takes a risk. He or she believes that he can create a good or service that can be sold for more than it costs to make it. If an entrepreneur thinks he can do that, he creates a job.? Wow.

This is what the upcoming election is about, and the American people must hand the Democrats a crushing defeat ? something more than loss of the House of Representatives. To demonstrate the resolve of the people, the Democrats need to be mercilessly crushed. The American people need to make clear that they will not accept the job-killing agenda that was thrust upon them. We need to tell the Democrats that when we most needed government to get out of the way so that we could create jobs, you were radicalizing America with a leftist agenda that we will not allow to stand.

We cannot fall for desperate pitches by Democrats who swear that they?re going to stand up to Reid or Pelosi. No matter what they say, they will vote for Reid as majority leader or Pelosi as Speaker. So when a good man like Joe Manchin of West Virginia says he is against the Obama agenda, he will still vote for Democratic leadership that burdens us with big-spending liberals like Chuck Schumer, Tom Harkin and Patrick Leahy. When Democrat Bobby Bright of Alabama says that he won't vote for Nancy Pelosi, he?ll still vote for a Democratic Speaker ? which means that House committee chairmen like Henry Waxman, Barney Frank and John Conyers will still be drafting their free- enterprise-killing bills that control more and more aspects of every American?s life.

This is truly a national election -- a historic election.  The leftist agenda has to be completely repudiated by the American people.  The Congress and the President have to be explicitly told that what we earn is our money, and anything we pay to you is by our good graces. They have to be firmly told that we are sick of our governmental employees making more than twice what we earn in the private sector. That we don?t accept their backroom deals that have put our national government and more than half our states on the fast track to bankruptcy. Ultimately, they have to learn that government must live within its means ? and that we determine the means.

Unless we do this now, at this moment in history, we will truly be on the road to serfdom and there will be no redemption.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Kramer

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2010, 05:35:09 PM »
I'm sure Krugman is the first thing that Obama reads in the morning. Everybody else wraps their fish with it.

We already spent a trillion dollars on stimulus. We spent 4 to 6 trillion on ObamaCare, depending on the estimates. Billions were spent on that Omnibus bill. No jobs were created. Why would doing more of the same create any jobs? Even if it did create a handful of jobs it wouldn't be worth it to saddle future generations with that kind of debt. Why would pork barrel spending make a small business owner create a job anyway? It wouldn't. Obama has been taking lessons on job creation from Dick Blumenthal.

Obama shouldn't be given a second chance to cause futher damage. He needs to be thrown out of office.


Free Advice.

sirs

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2010, 06:58:35 PM »
Obama shouldn't be given a second chance to cause futher damage. He needs to be thrown out of office.

Free Advice.

So true.  What has to happen is:
- The people of this country elect the GOP as majority control of congress
- The GOP grasp how and why they were elected to majority control (compared to the egregious error Obama believed his mandate was supposed to be, following 2008)  They need to educate the electorate that they are indeed the party of no....as in NO MORE of this socialist garbage that Obama/Pelosi/Reid were trying to ram down our throats, despite the overwheming majority of this country that kept saying "no"
- The GOP begins defunding large portions of the Dem's Socialist agenda, most notably, Obaminationcare.

Don't EVEN try to placate the left or Obama.  By all means, invite Obama and the Dems to help contribute to fixing the disaster they brought upon this country, but don't hold your breath on them actually providing any help.  Instead expect repetative slandering, when not out-and-out lying.  So focus on the things they can do, rather than hope the president will provide a signature to repealing any of his trademark legislation
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2010, 07:18:24 PM »
Quote
The GOP begins defunding large portions of the Dem's Socialist agenda, most notably, Obaminationcare.
the GOP will need a veto proof majority to do that, or a whole lot of blue dog dems on their side.

It takes a 2/3rds majority to override a veto.

sirs

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 08:05:01 PM »
If you noted the paragraph above, you'd note I'm referring to projects that only require a majority.  Defunding Obamacare can easily rech a majority, and perhaps even a +60 in the Senate.  Anything that requires a veto overide is a non-starter, given the #'s involved.  The only achievement of such an approach is purely symbolic. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

R.R.

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2010, 08:25:07 PM »
GOP Can Defund Obamacare If They Win House
Tuesday, 30 Mar 2010 10:47 PM Article Font Size     
By: Dick Morris & Eileen McGann

We don't have to wait until we have a Republican in the White House to rid this nation of the shackles of Obamacare. We can do it next year if we win simple majorities in one or both houses of Congress.

The Obama healthcare bill was an authorization measure which established a program and set down its parameters. But authorization bills are not appropriations. Each year the Congress must act on appropriations for each department and agency in the government. If no funds are appropriated, nothing can be spent.

So if Republicans take the House (where appropriations have to originate) - and especially if they also take the Senate - they will have the capacity to zero fund Obamacare, appropriating not a dime for it in their spending bills. Indeed, they can and should include a specific amendment to their appropriations bills banning the expenditure of any of the funds on Obama's healthcare program.

In the wake of the passage of the healthcare bill, states are filing lawsuits and talk of repeal is in the air. Both are useful efforts. But litigation takes time and the key challenge - to the constitutionality of the requirement that everybody buy insurance - cannot even begin until it takes effect in 2014. And repeal will obviously be impossible as long as Obama wields the veto from his Oval Office. It would be impossible mathematically for the Republicans to get a two-thirds majority in the Senate and unlikely in the House, so an override is out of the question. Repeal will have to wait until 2013, after Obama's defeat in 2012.

But zero funding can happen immediately after the Republicans take Congress. All this makes the elections of 2010 critical. If we can stop this bill from getting off the ground, it will be possible to repeal it when we take over the White House. But if the Democrats keep their majorities, the program will be so entrenched by the time we defeat Obama that its repeal would be unlikely.


http://www.newsmax.com/Morris/morris-healthcare-defunding-house/2010/03/30/id/354293

BT

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2010, 08:46:29 PM »
Are you saying the President can not veto an appropriations bill? And to override that veto a super-majority is not necessary?

R.R.

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 09:41:54 PM »
Obama could veto the appropriation bill, but he would be the one defunding ObamaCare then. No appropriation bill, no money. The government would then shut down, and it would be all on him.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 10:25:35 PM »
The government would then shut down, and it would be all on him.

No didn't you know it will always be the Republicans fault for halting insanity....right BT?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 10:48:48 PM »
Seems to me the last time this happened when Clinton and Gingrich faced off at High Noon, it was the G's who took the PR hit.

Obama simply says the budget is too draconian and the GOP gets blamed for grandma not getting her Social Security check and has to eat cat food.

You think the public will even know what the brouhaha is about? They'll just side with whomever spins it best.




R.R.

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 11:07:24 PM »
I'm ready for that fight. We have several things on our side this time. A massive $1.9 trillion deficit and a runaway government, and a government that is trying to take over almost every facet of our lives. And most people want to not only defund ObamaCare, but repeal it. Obama would be going against the American people if he vetoes it. Obama is not going to like any Republican spending bill anyway, so they might as well go for it. Obama is also a jackass, unlike Bill Clinton who actually was a good politician and could speak without a teleprompter.  Clinton could spin bullshit. Obama --um, uh, uh, uh, um, uhhh-- can't.

Kramer

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 11:10:37 PM »
Seems to me the last time this happened when Clinton and Gingrich faced off at High Noon, it was the G's who took the PR hit.

Obama simply says the budget is too draconian and the GOP gets blamed for grandma not getting her Social Security check and has to eat cat food.

You think the public will even know what the brouhaha is about? They'll just side with whomever spins it best.






anybody with a brain knows we are broke. Last time that wasn't the case.

BT

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Re: By golly, we haven't spent enough. THAT's the problem
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 12:25:01 AM »
Quote
anybody with a brain knows we are broke. Last time that wasn't the case.

The government is broke.

The issue is how do we fix it.

The GOP, if they win the majority has a year to turn the economy around and they need to do it in a way that Congress gets the credit, if they want to also win the WH.

This is serious business.

No sense getting all puffy chested before the polls close. Now is the time to start planning on what happens after you win. Will the emphasis be on the long term good of the country or short term gain of the party.