Fight! But, for what? A challenge to President Bush.

[domer]

I fear -- no, I'm convinced -- that in the case of the Iraq war the messenger supplants the message. We need a leader in time of war, an individual capable of both persuading people and moving people behind a policy that, when understood, shines with reason and power, not with ghosts of mistakes past, nagging questions about judgment and credibility, and a myopic world view coupled with a most frustrating stubborness.

But, we have no choice: Bush is president. What we can do is exhort him to fill the role.

[domer]

And, we need the Democratic opposition -- NOW -- to articulate a vision of what the Middle East and the world will look like, honestly and intelligently, in the wake of a US withdrawal, both logically and especially longitudinally. Is there an alternate vision of meeting the great threat of violent, radical Islam?

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think Juniorbush is stubborn, because he thinks he's Churchill, and Churchill was also stubborn.
Stubbornness has its place. Churchill didn't start WWII, and Juniorbush clearly started the Iraq War.

Churchill also wrote several pretty good history books. Somehow, I tend to doubt that Juniorbush wil be noted for his written output.

[domer]

Also, XO, Churchill was stubborn with the consent of the governed.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Like Juniorbush, Churchill began his career as both a drunk and a hideous incompetent.

Gallipoli was one of the greatest military disasters of all time. Worse than Iraq, maybe. It ended in an ignominious defeat for His Majesty, but no matter, the casualties were all disposable Aussies and Kiwis. Sons and grandsons of pickpockets, highwaymen, beggars and thieves, don'cha know? Iraq could turn out to be a bigger disaster, but probably won't.

Like Juniorbush, Churchill was from the caste of the idle rich. Never had to spend a lot of time walking the pavement looking for a job.

Compared with Juniorbush, Churchill was just lucky. The Germans really did want to invade the UK, and unlike Saddam, had a highly competent military in the vicinity. Stubbornness worked for Churchill.