How extreme is the gun lobby?

[Xavier_Onassis]

I really doubt this.

All we know is how many guns are registered, not how many are owned.

Countries with fewer guns have fewer gun deaths.

[sirs]

What you doubt are facts, I'm afraid.  Not mine, not the NRA's, but facts from the FBI & Dept of Justice statistics

FACT:  In THIS country, those regions with more permissive gun laws and CCW holders have LESS violent crime than those regions in the U.S. that have more prohibitive gun laws & restrictions to carry.

[Xavier_Onassis]

You are full of crap.

[sirs]

That's merely an opinion, which in no way refutes the fact that in THIS country, those regions with more permissive gun laws and CCW holders have LESS violent crime than those regions in the U.S. that have more prohibitive gun laws & restrictions to carry

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is bullshit. You are full of bullshit.

[sirs]

Your opinion is duly noted, as is your continued inability to refute current facts & reality

[Plane]

  We know quite well that gun sales have been excellent since the election of Bill Clinton, it seems just from this that there are more guns privately owned in the US now than ever before.
   This coincides entirely with a decline in most crime rates across the board.
  Including homicide.

    Perhaps this is crap , but I need an explanation of how it is.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Murders are caused by mostly young men in their teens and twenties. There are fewer of young men in the population, mostly because birth control meant that fewer women had unwanted children.

Fewer men of murderous age means fewer murders.

If you study what has happened in other countries, there are also fewer murders. Many fewer, because there are better gun controls in most other countries.

[sirs]

While in THIS country, those regions with more permissive gun laws and CCW holders have LESS violent crime than those regions in the U.S. that have more prohibitive gun laws & restrictions to carry

Fact

[Plane]

Murders are caused by mostly young men in their teens and twenties. There are fewer of young men in the population, mostly because birth control meant that fewer women had unwanted children.

Fewer men of murderous age means fewer murders.

If you study what has happened in other countries, there are also fewer murders. Many fewer, because there are better gun controls in most other countries.

So while there are more guns availible than ever , there are fewer people willing to misuse them.

I am trying to remember when I first saw the bumpersticker line"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Pithy eh?

[Xavier_Onassis]

People with guns kill people with those guns.

People who lack guns do NOT kill people with guns if they have no guns.

[sirs]

And in THIS country, we have a right to guns

[Plane]

People with guns kill people with those guns.

People who lack guns do NOT kill people with guns if they have no guns.

People without guns kill people with other means.

Is it the convienience ?

[Xavier_Onassis]

A gun is a very convenient way to eliminate other people, It is essentially a remote for people. Using knives, swords, spears and such can get the murderer all bloody. It is hard to strangle people and to beat them to death. Poison is nice, but it involves deception, and some people manage that.

Lots of people killed with guns would just have been bruised or wounded without guns. Guns are quite lethal.

[sirs]

They're designed to be.  Makes it a great deterrent to a wound be murderer, when the gun is pointed at them.  Provides even the frailest of women, the means to better protect themselves, IF THEY CHOSE TO use one.  (don't want xo to start on the strawman notion that sirs or the NRA wants everyone to be packing)