Author Topic: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD  (Read 2110 times)

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Michael Tee

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Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« on: February 21, 2007, 09:55:26 PM »
from www.antiwar.com

February 21, 2007
So What if Iran Is
Interfering in Iraq?
Faulty premises will lead us to another war 
by Michael Perry

Anti-warriors and even formerly gullible reporters are taking issue with Bush's claims that Iran is supporting the Iraqi insurgents, but this could represent a serious strategic mistake in our efforts to prevent another war.

Choose your battles wisely.

We are witnessing the Bush administration's attempt to frame the debate about a (supposedly unplanned) military confrontation with Iran. Bush wants the debate to be about whether Iran is supporting the Iraqi insurgents. Why? First, because this is a debate that Bush can win. Second, holding such a debate postpones discussion of much more important issues, in particular the unspoken assumption that if Iran is supporting attacks against the U.S. military in Iraq, then the U.S. has reasonable grounds to wage war against Iran. Also postponed (perhaps until it's too late to matter) is a debate on the broader proposition that a military confrontation with Iran is necessary, or even useful, to the American people.

If the key question is whether or not Iran is supporting the Iraqi insurgents, Bush will win. Despite the administration's shameful lies preceding the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and regardless of the quality of the evidence that Bush shows, it is probably true that the Iraqi insurgents are getting material support from individuals within Iran, albeit individuals completely unconnected to the Iranian government. Borders never have been as solid as the lines mapmakers draw to represent them. With virtual certainty, we can say that there are some weapons moving into Iraq from Iran – perhaps not a significant amount, but a quantity greater than zero. So Bush could win the debate on a technicality: some Iranians are helping the insurgents kill American soldiers.

Furthermore, it is possible that the Iraqi insurgents are receiving material support from individuals in the Iranian government and military, without the knowledge of the Iranian leadership. Think about it. The U.S. invaded and occupies Iran's neighbor, in clear defiance of international law, in violation of the most basic moral precepts, and in disregard of world opinion. From its forward base in occupied Iraq, the U.S. presents an obvious threat to the people of Iran. At least some individuals in the Iranian government may have perceived this threat and reacted, perhaps overreaching their official authority to do so.

But let's go even further and say, for the sake of argument, that the Iraqi insurgents are receiving officially authorized aid from the Iranian state. It is true that having a neighboring nation in chaos does not generally benefit any country, but the Iranians have been under the gun from the U.S. for a very long time – decades, in fact. The recent threats and provocations from the Bush administration make it clear that Iran is an imminent target. I'm quite sure the Iranians realize that the quagmire in Iraq is the primary impediment to an American invasion of Iran. Troubles for U.S. forces in Iraq may buy the Iranians more time. Could the Iranians be so blind to their own self-interests?

Beyond the practical justifications for Iranian involvement in Iraq, there are also moral rationales. If Russia were to invade Mexico, at least some in the U.S. government would support the Mexican insurgents against the Russian occupiers. And most Americans would back such assistance. Aiding one's neighbors against an unwelcome occupation is not only reasonable, it is generally considered worthy of respect.

If we engage Bush in his debate, on his terms, then we might score a few quick victories. The shoddy quality of Bush's current "evidence" is just as apparent as before the Iraq invasion, but eventually some genuine proof of Iranian "interference" may arise. And if such proof does surface, we will have missed the opportunity to refute the unspoken assertion that the U.S. should attack Iran if it is supporting Iraqi insurgents. By then, the bombs will already be falling, shredding delicate flesh and scarring the land – perhaps with nuclear warheads.

We must frame the debate about the actions of our supposedly democratic government. Quit arguing over whether Iranians are aiding their neighbors and, by extension, defending themselves. They have every right to – the U.S. is the aggressor in Iraq, and will be again if it attacks Iran.
 

BT

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 10:01:06 PM »
Pathetic.

The antiwarriors are more concerned with spin than they are whether confronting Iranian  interference with Iraq is in America's best interest.

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 10:14:34 PM »
<<The antiwarriors are more concerned with spin than they are whether confronting Iranian  interference with Iraq is in America's best interest. >>

That article wasn't meant to convince anyone of anything.  It's a tactical manual, for activists already opposed to the war, on how to deal with Bush's claims about Iranian activity in Iraq.  Of course it's concerned with spin - - Bush is going to spin the story one way, and they are outlining a plan for not letting him get away with it - - it's about counter-spin.

sirs

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 10:53:09 PM »
You can definately see the theme to most of Tee's postings and commentaries.  Beyond the standard templates (read; no facts/evidence what-so-ever to the contrary will alter said template) of Bush is a moronic version of Hitler and our American Military is a big mass of murdering rapists, there seems to be an underlying theme that allows Tee to rationalize and justify pathetic garbage like this antiwar.com op-ed......whatever can screw America. 

Basically, America is so screwed up, anything and everything is justified in America getting screwed.  Whether it's soldiers being burned alive or prisoners' heads cut off by terrorists, whether it's Iran arming terrorists and insurgents to kill innoncent Iraqis and American forces, I mean whatever possibly can screw America over, he's all for.  Hell, maybe someone can really do the world a huge favor, and take out Bush/Cheney with a 50caliber, especially now that Rumsfeld is out.

You can almost feel the unbridled visceral hatred he has for America, Bush and our military.  Pretty sad
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 10:59:56 PM »
That is why it is so important that guys like Tee and knute have a forum. By their words and deeds we will know them.

sirs

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 11:20:34 PM »
That is why it is so important that guys like Tee and knute have a forum. By their words and deeds we will know them.

Compared to the left's efforts to minimize, if not prevent opposing speech (Fairness Doctrine, comes to mind), 100% agreed.  I mean, you can't buy this kind of spotlight on the rationally challenged
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 11:57:33 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 11:52:41 PM »
Quote
But let's go even further and say, for the sake of argument, that the Iraqi insurgents are receiving officially authorized aid from the Iranian state. It is true that having a neighboring nation in chaos does not generally benefit any country, but the Iranians have been under the gun from the U.S. for a very long time – decades, in fact. The recent threats and provocations from the Bush administration make it clear that Iran is an imminent target. I'm quite sure the Iranians realize that the quagmire in Iraq is the primary impediment to an American invasion of Iran. Troubles for U.S. forces in Iraq may buy the Iranians more time. Could the Iranians be so blind to their own self-interests?


Is Iraq the impediment to an invasion of Iran or the reason for one?

Can it possibly be both a quagmire and a springboard?

It is nice isn't it, when you get to have things both ways.



Michael Tee

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2007, 01:23:31 AM »
<<Basically, America is so screwed up, anything and everything is justified in America getting screwed.  Whether it's soldiers being burned alive or prisoners' heads cut off by terrorists, whether it's Iran arming terrorists and insurgents to kill innoncent Iraqis and American forces, I mean whatever possibly can screw America over, he's all for. >>

It almost sounds like sirs is catching on to karmic law.  Which in a way is kind of encouraging.  Hell, if sirs can get it, anyone can get it.   Maybe this is the dawn of a Buddhist renaissance in America.

<< Hell, maybe someone can really do the world a huge favor, and take out Bush/Cheney with a 50caliber, especially now that Rumsfeld is out.>>

Well, 50-cal. is definitely too drastic for my tastes.  I'd be happy with a sound thrashing at the polls on Election Day,  followed by war crmes trials and, if found guilty, the maximum punishment the law provides for mass murder.

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2007, 01:36:06 AM »
<<Can it possibly be both a quagmire and a springboard?>>

Isn't it all in the eye of the beholder?  To a rational and sane individual, it's a quagmire.  To a war-mongering fascist nut-case like your "President" and his fast-dwindling band of supporters, it's a springboard.  Only it might just be a springboard to someplace that isn't exactly the way your "President" thought it was going to be.

sirs

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Re: Iran Arms Iraqi "Insurgents?" BFD
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 01:58:46 AM »
...snip...

Yep, pretty much what I thought     
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle