He may be right

[Amianthus]

I think this is good example  of the  the U.S. is not politically able to produce alcohol efficiently.

through petroleum from hydration?

where can I find out more
I typed that on google and got different stuff
whats this process called

It's called ethylene hydration.

[kimba1]

isn`t that toxic?

I remember it`s one of the ingredients to MTB

[Amianthus]

isn`t that toxic?

I remember it`s one of the ingredients to MTB

You mean MTBE? Yeah, alchohol is used to make it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The problem is not that there is a shortage of food. This is not true.
The best way to grow crops for fuel is to grow fuel crops that will not grow on land used for food. This is why switchgrass would be a good idea. If you could develop some plant that would grow in central  Nevada, Western Oregon and places like that, it would be ideal.

There is a big sugarcane lobby in the US, but the sugarbeet farmers are generally family farmers and have a lot less political clout.

Methanol should be a better choice than Ethanol, as it contains less Oxygen. If we were really serious about alcohol, we would eb importing it from Brazil and then developing our own technology to grow more here.

But we are not serious about ending dependency on oil producing nations. Not serious at all.

The GOP must be removed from power (and a lot of Democrats as well), and the various corn lobbies must be weakened before this will happen.

[Plane]

The problem is not that there is a shortage of food. This is not true.
The best way to grow crops for fuel is to grow fuel crops that will not grow on land used for food. This is why switchgrass would be a good idea. If you could develop some plant that would grow in central  Nevada, Western Oregon and places like that, it would be ideal.

There is a big sugarcane lobby in the US, but the sugarbeet farmers are generally family farmers and have a lot less political clout.

Methanol should be a better choice than Ethanol, as it contains less Oxygen. If we were really serious about alcohol, we would eb importing it from Brazil and then developing our own technology to grow more here.

You are in perfect and complete agreement with President Bush , how does that feel?

[kimba1]

the question i have about getting fuel from plants is can`t it truely be sustainable
brazil grows sugarcane but How do they maintain the soil to still keep it viable for plant growth?

[Amianthus]

Methanol should be a better choice than Ethanol, as it contains less Oxygen.

Both being alcohols, they each have exactly one hydroxyl group (part of the definition of "alcohol"). Therefore, they each have exactly one oxygen atom per molecule.

Ethanol = C₂H₅OH (sometimes written as C₂H₆O)

Methanol = CH₃OH

The general formula for an alcohol is C_nH_2n+1OH

Besides, both are added to gasoline to make gasoline burn cleaner, because they are both oxygenators. Oxygen in the fuel is a good thing if you're burning it.

[fatman]

There was a big article in the Seattle Times here a couple of weeks ago about producing ethanol from sources other than corn.  Switchgrass was mentioned in that it would be acceptable to grow on land that is marginal for agriculture.  What intrigues me the most is the idea of using wood fiber, which according to the article that I read would produce over double the energy of corn alone.  Perhaps we would have an economic incentive for removing the underbrush that thrives in the understory of forest canopies here in the West.  It is the underbrush, often dead, that fuels the massive forest fires that we have out here.

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=ethanol11&date=20070311&query=ethanol
Seattle Times article

[Amianthus]

It is the underbrush, often dead, that fuels the massive forest fires that we have out here.

If you spend any time in the woods where there is a large amount of dead undergrowth, you will catch the unmistakable odor of methanol.

[fatman]

If you spend any time in the woods where there is a large amount of dead undergrowth, you will catch the unmistakable odor of methanol.

You don't have to tell me twice.  As an avid hiker here in the Pacific Northwest, when you get under the canopy, especially in old growth or of a mature second growth forest, there is quite an odor. 

[Amianthus]

You don't have to tell me twice.  As an avid hiker here in the Pacific Northwest, when you get under the canopy, especially in old growth or of a mature second growth forest, there is quite an odor. 

And if the odor is strong, you need to be careful - the fumes are flammable.

[Plane]

There are a lot of ways to get fuel out of biomass , one of my favoriate ideas is algae which could be raised in massive amounts in the central pacific without causeing much environmental impact.

One thing I like about this idea is the floating instalation that this operation would need, like a gigantic barge surrounded by colassal belts of floating fabric.


The central pacific is nearly sterile but if a bit of fabric were fertilised with the minerals algae needed and floated in the sun it would grow a lot of algae on it the belt of fabric would pay out of the plant freshly impregnated with fertilizerand would float for a few weeks as the belt roated through the plant , by the ti returned to the plant it would be heavy with algae .

Algae can yeald a lot of usefull chemicals includeing food and fuel.