Author Topic: How tax cuts work....in a saloon  (Read 868 times)

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sirs

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How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« on: September 02, 2007, 01:03:32 PM »
The author of this piece is unknown, and it has been in circulation for a while, although the story changes a bit. But in order for the numbers to work out, this ?event? would have likely taken place in 1994, the last year when the richest 10% of taxpayers paid 59% of the income tax?or 59 out of every 100 dollars collected by the federal income tax. Today, the richest 10% pay 68% of the income tax.

Furthermore, in the story, the author assumes that the poorest half?the first five of the ten men?pay merely 1% of federal income taxes, when the bottom half pays 3%. So the numbers don?t quite jibe. But as Dan Rather might put it, the story is ?essentially accurate.? 

How Tax Cuts Work?

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer. The bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:   
- The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
- The fifth would pay $1.
- The sixth would pay $3.
- The seventh $7.
- The eighth $12.
- The ninth $18.
- The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."

So now drinks for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ?fair share??

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink their beer.

So the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same portion, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:   
- The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
- The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
- The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
- The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
- The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
- The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too.  It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the bar anymore. In fact, they might start drinking somewhere overseas.


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2007, 03:10:23 PM »
But this isn't a bar, and the richest guy does NOT leave.

There are relatively few beatings due to the tax code.


What if the tax code was like pay toilets? Can you do it with pay toilets?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2007, 03:14:42 PM »
But this isn't a bar, and the richest guy does NOT leave.

Sure they do.

Where does Johnny Depp lives nowadays?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2007, 05:04:37 PM »
But this isn't a bar, and the richest guy does NOT leave.

As the piece made painfully clear in the beginning, this was not meant to be a carbon copy of our tax code, simply a fairly good analogy for lay people.  And as Ami already referenced, math was apparently not your strong suit.  "Rich" folks have the luxury of leaving both the analogus bar and the actual country, if they so desire.  The point of the piece remains unchallenged in how some would attempt to distort the actual %'s of "relief" they're getting, all the while ignoring the HUGE amount being paid by the so called "rich"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 06:45:56 PM »


What if the tax code was like pay toilets? Can you do it with pay toilets?


Hmmm....

Pay toilets charge everyone the same fee , this is like a user fee type of tax. Neither Progressive nor regressive such a tax is a penalty on the usr who must use most frequently.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2007, 08:22:43 PM »
Johny Depp lives in France, where the tax rate is higher. His wife is French. I doubt that the tax code is his major motivation.

Rich people can leave the country, but it is their income that is taxed, not them personally. If they can be paid overseas, then it is easy for them to leave. The Irish have no taxes on royalty income, and have attracted many writers to Ireland in that way. But most of the super rich are in businesses that they really cannot relocate. If your fortune came from a chain of Denny's or McDonald's restaurants, for example, it would be harder to extract your income untaxed, if not impossible.

The really huge fortunes are not taxed much at all in the US. We do not tax wealth nearly so much as income, and there are many ways to disguise income as dividends, as perks, as items that are taxed lightly or not at all.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: How tax cuts work....in a saloon
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2007, 08:32:27 PM »
Johny Depp lives in France, where the tax rate is higher. His wife is French. I doubt that the tax code is his major motivation.

That isn't the point, and you know it.  The point is he's one of "the rich", that took his money elsewere, obligating the rest of the "bar patrons" to pay that much more


The really huge fortunes are not taxed much at all in the US. We do not tax wealth nearly so much as income, and there are many ways to disguise income as dividends, as perks, as items that are taxed lightly or not at all.

Someone again demonstrating prescious little understanding of who pays what in taxes, and the %'s involved.  But your point is well taken.  You should give a call to Senator Edwards, and ask him why he was paying himself his own salary, when he ran his business enterprise, and thus avoiding having to pay payroll taxes......which last time I checked was supposedly used for SS.  So much for Edwards looking out for "the little guy"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle