The Sunni-Shia War in America
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | 12/10/2007
Frontpage Interview?s guest today is Dave Gaubatz, the first Federal Agent (civilian) to enter Iraq in 2003. Currently the Director of the Mapping Shari'a Project and owner of Wahhabi Counter-terrorism publications, both of which provide first-hand intelligence for law enforcement and Counter-Terrorism professionals.
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FP: Dave Gaubatz, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
Gaubatz: Thank you Jamie.
FP: I want to talk to you today, among other things, about the Sunni-Shia conflict that is now breaking out on our shores, but first let?s talk a about the Mapping Shari?a Project that you direct. What is it about?
Gaubatz: There are many organizations doing outstanding work helping our country in regards to counter-terrorism issues. Almost a year ago I was contacted by a man who had put the various strategies together and structured a project which may be our country?s last hope for saving America as we know/knew it. David Yerushalmi, an attorney involved in policy work for 25 years and president of the Society of Americans for National Existence (SANE), is the person credited with the idea and methodological design of ?Mapping Shari?a?. I am the Director of Field Operations and Intelligence for the Mapping Shari?a project.
The Mapping Shari?a project is not complicated and can really be summarized in a few sentences. It is both a law enforcement tool and a policy initiative. The project?s objective is to identify all 2300 plus Islamic Centers in the U.S. and determine through first-hand field research which centers advocate strict adherence to Shari?a Law (laws based on the interpretations of Allah and no other) and which centers advocate violent Jihad and the destruction of the West. The data is then be analyzed and put into a matrix. The project is a rigorously objective empirical investigation to test the thesis: That the driving doctrinal force behind Jihad is Shari?a. Indeed, if the thesis is validated, we expect to see a rigid one-to-one correlation between Shari?a adherence and the promotion of Jihad.
If strict Shari?a adherence is shown to be related (as many counter-terrorism believe) to a Jihadi threat, then it would be a violation of current US law, notably 18 U.S.C. 2385. For a more thorough understanding readers should refer to
www.mappingsharia.com.
The Mapping Shari?a project is in full swing and we can report that after the first 100 mosques and day schools, the correlation between Shari?a adherence and the promotion of violence and Jihad against the West is exactly what one would expect.
It is important for people to understand that the Mapping Shari?a project is comprised of many professionals from various backgrounds and religions. The team had a former member of Jamaat Islamia (JI) assist in producing a rigorous objective matrix in regards to Shari?a adherence and the promotion of Jihad; we have former U.S. and Iraqi law enforcement, U.S., and Israeli military personnel. We are comprised of Christians, Muslim, and Jews. The team is working together to protect our country for our children and their children. The Mapping Shari?a project is designed to protect innocent people from ?all religions? from the violence driven by a legal code that is fixated on world domination and whose advocates, terrorists such as Osama Bin Laden and Abul Ala Maududi (founder of JI), have disciples spread throughout the world, including right here in the U.S.
FP: Ok, let?s discuss the Sunni versus Shia conflict in the U.S. ? as there is all over the world on different levels. What significance and threat does this pose to us here?
Gaubatz: Jamie this question indicates FPM is light years ahead of most simply by asking this question. The majority of people do not even understand the significant differences between Sunni and Shia. Sadly, most of our Presidential candidates could not define them. Most Americans can?t identify which countries are predominately Sunni or which are Shia. Politicians, our military leaders, and every American should understand the majority of Sunni Muslims following ?Pure Islam? do not recognize the Shia people as being Muslim. They consider them to have departed from Islam and are considered apostates. The penalty for such apostasy as any Islamic scholar will expand and as the Sunni literature clearly states is death (i.e., abandoning the true religion of Islam). With an ideology such as this no one should be surprised of the fighting between the Sunni and Shia sects in Iraq. Nor should anyone be surprised we have obtained evidence indicating the same rift in the U.S. Keep in mind also that most Muslims are Sunni ? about 80%. And while most Jihadists appear to be Sunni, we must keep in mind that one of the most extreme and violent renditions of Shari?a is the one currently promoted by the ruling Imams of Tehran.
In the U.S., the preliminary evidence of this internecine war is from direct conversations with Islamic leaders and the materials they are distributing, which is a by-product of our Mapping Shari?a project. Never in ?Pure Islam? will an apostate be accepted, trusted, or allowed to lead Muslims without it subsequently leading to violence. In Islam it is well understood that ?all people? were born Muslim, but due to problems in the ?families?, many have not accepted Islam. The word ?convert? is used by many Islamic scholars as a political tool. In Islam the correct word is ?revert? ? as in a reversion to one?s original faith.
FP: And the violence in this conflict has already started here hasn?t it?
Gaubatz: Yes. There are signs there has already been violence between Sunni and Shia people living in the U.S. Sunni and Shia sources developed by the Mapping Shari?a project have informed our team that there are many unsolved homicides in the U.S. and other violence that was related to the infighting between Sunni and Shia people. Michigan is an area ripe for violence between the two sects. The ramifications will be for the fighting to become more open and involve anyone considered to be an apostate from Islam.
I will use one example of the many we have found. Within approximately ten miles in a specific region in Utah, there are three Islamic centers which I personally researched. Two are Sunni and one was Shia.
* Khadeela Mosque, West Valley, UT (Sunni)
* Al-Rasool Mosque, SLC, UT (Shia)
* Masjid Noor , SLC, UT (Sunni)
The Sunni leaders in this area do not recognize the Shia people as being Muslim nor as representing Islam. They are considered apostates. As a result, the two Sunni mosques do not recognize the Shia people only a few blocks from them as Muslims. Printed material I obtained proves this, as well as conversations I had with Islamic leaders and members.
Note: On 12 Feb 2007, the Trolley Square shooting tragedy took place. The killer was identified as Sulejman Talovic. He had attended ?Masjid Noor?. I spent several hours at Masjid Noor speaking with people, attending the prayer, and reviewing the material provided by the mosque leadership. Masjid Noor is Sunni, and the mosque and its leadership promote and distribute violent material. Just one of many examples is the following quote from literature provided at the mosque:
?The Wisdom in killing the Apostate. Islam is a complete methodology for life. It is a religion, and a government, a worship, a leadership, a Holy Book, a sword, a soul, a material, a world, and a hereafter. It is built on the reason and the logic.?
FP: Shed some light for us on U.S. Islamic scholars that are advocating violence in U.S. What can we do about this?
Gaubatz: I will limit this to two Islamic scholars in the U.S. since the research is still ongoing.
* Imam Siraj Wahhaj, Brooklyn, NY. He lectures throughout the U.S., has been invited by police organizations to speak, by Congress, and travels throughout the Middle East.
* Wahhaj has lectured during his prayers that America is the worst country in the world. He followed up with a statement informing his audience to begin recruiting gang members from the streets, bring them inside the mosque and give them Islam, then send them back on the streets with Uzis.
* Wahhaj has been invited to speak to law enforcement groups. Afterwards in his lectures he mocks them and tells his members the police are non-believers and should never be trusted.
* Step by step guide books are provided to Muslims pertaining on what to do if ever interviewed by the police, FBI, or other U.S. agencies. The title is ?What should you do if you are arrested or framed by the racist, fascist, criminal police? Or the racist, fascist, criminal FBI.? The guide refers to our law enforcement as terrorists. The guide is 80 pages and subsequently informs Muslims to go ?underground? if suspected of a crime.
I visited this mosque and obtained the material as evidence. Researchers spoke to leaders of this mosque. Wahhaj is an un-indicted coconspirator of the 1993 WTC bombings.
* Ahmad Sakr: He lectures throughout the U.S. in large part on Shari?a for Muslims in the U.S. He has tapes of his speeches distributed to Islamic day schools throughout the U.S., the audience of which is elementary, middle, and high school age Muslim students. One of his many messages is ?Do not follow the U.S. Constitution or the laws of Congress. Only follow Shari?a law. If you follow the US law you will go to ?hell? because you will be guilty of ?shirk? or polytheism. In Saudi Arabia, the application of the Shari?a criminal code has led to at least one accused ?polytheist? to be executed. Specifically, Sakr tells his young American Muslim listeners that members of Congress will go to hell because they have man-made laws which are meant to override Allah?s laws. Sakr?s tapes are still being sold and provided to Muslims. I have one as evidence as well that our Mapping Shari?a project found at an Islamic day school in Atlanta.
FP: What kind of trouble are the Saudis up to here in the U.S. lately?
Gaubatz: The Saudis are providing material to Islamic scholars that advocate violence against non-Muslims. We have been provided (by Islamic scholars) material stamped by the Saudi Ministry which calls for an Islamic nation worldwide under Shari?a law.
It is the objective of the Mapping Shari?a team to only obtain first-hand evidence. In late Oct 2007, I contacted the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia, Islamic Affairs section, Washington, DC. I requested specific material, one of which was a booklet which was edited by a convicted terrorist who now sits in federal prison. The book is used by most Sunni mosques as recommended reading for one to understand Islam. Again the editor is a person who was convicted in U.S. Federal court of advocating terrorism against the U.S. He is serving 70 years plus life. Why would the Saudi Government distribute this book as an example of Islam? I have additional information that the Saudi Government is actively distributing this book to all public libraries and universities throughout the U.S.
On 1 Nov 2007, I received a package from the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia. The guide book by the convicted terrorist was inside.
FP: Is our law enforcement prepared to protect America?
Gaubatz: We have the best and most courageous law enforcement in the world, but sadly they are neither trained nor prepared to proactively fight terrorism. Responding to a terrorist event (being reactive) is not fighting terrorism. Once you respond, you have lost. It does not matter how many people get in front of the television (politicians, law enforcement, firefighters, and military leaders) and shake each others hands and congratulate each other on how well the response was carried out. When we are terrorized we have accepted an assault on our liberty and have destroyed the future for our children. We should all hang our heads at this time and be very humble. We lost the fight, and the terrorists beat us. I do not exclude myself. I was a Federal Agent (1811) CT specialist on 1 Sept. 2001. In 2001 I knew little about what I really had to know about CT and how to be proactive. I dedicated my life to insure I would do everything I could to prevent our children from having to suffer another attack.
This meant an enormous amount of hard work, but I did it and continue to do so. I have studied more than 1000 books published by Islamic scholars, listened to hundreds of hours of their lectures and prayers. I have visited mosques in most major cites so I can understand more. I understand not all Muslims embrace Shari?a as so many U.S. Islamic scholars have. One example of this is the fact that we employ highly trained Muslims as field researchers. The Muslims on our team do not want to live in an Islamic nation under Shari?a law. They recognize the sanctity of this nation as a constitutional republic.
During our visits to several law enforcement departments it has become very evident they are not prepared to, nor are they allowed to proactively fight terrorism. Our law enforcement need to be inside the Islamic Centers obtaining first-hand intelligence and they need to study the same manuals (I am not referring to the Quran) the terrorists utilize. They are readily available in the U.S.
But the problem is that law enforcement cannot get into the mosques without probable cause. Further, when even the highly advanced New York Police Department conducts an exhaustive study on homegrown Jihadist recruitment and publishes a 90-page study, the NYPD simply ignores the role of Shari?a and the importance of Shari?a adherence in what it calls ?the radicalization? process. The NYPD ignores Shari?a not because it is not obviously a threat to US national security, but because political correctness forbids them from saying what they all know to be true.
I will end by stressing one point. Our government intelligence agencies are recruiting for Arabic/Farsi translators from the same centers that put out the book informing their members never to follow U.S. laws over Shari?a law, and call our FBI and police officers terrorists. One piece of evidence I obtained in NY was a U.S. government brochure recruiting translators; next to this brochure was the guide book calling the FBI racist and fascist. There is little doubt (per direct information to me by people working on translations for our government) that US federal agencies have hired translators that are not loyal to America, and are providing false translations or are collecting intel for their Jihadist brethren.
FP: David Gaubatz, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview.
Gaubatz: Thank you Jamie.
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Jamie Glazov is Frontpage Magazine's managing editor. He holds a Ph.D. in History with a specialty in U.S. and Canadian foreign policy. He edited and wrote the introduction to David Horowitz?s Left Illusions. He is also the co-editor (with David Horowitz) of The Hate America Left and the author of Canadian Policy Toward Khrushchev?s Soviet Union (McGill-Queens University Press, 2002) and 15 Tips on How to be a Good Leftist. To see his previous symposiums, interviews and articles Click Here. Email him at jglazov@rogers.com.
