?Never Again? Nation

[sirs]

Since it provides anyone the opportunity to be whatever it is they want to be.  Do some have it more difficult?, of course.  But no one is prevented, and our constitution provides the framework of God given freedoms to progress as far as one wants.  Too bad so many politicians mutate the message of the constitution, to throw up more and more roadblocks at the common man vs the other way around where the constitution is supposed to LIMIT what government is allowed to do.

It's actually a dirty little practice, as I see it

But how does democracy allow "anyone to be what they want to be?" How do you get from the voting booth to essentially doing whatever you like?  I don't see the transition.

Because you're confusing laws with the Constitution.  The constitution provides the building blocks of freedom.  people voting for more laws have a tendency to limit freedom, but democracy allows us to alter that amount of freedom vs impediment.  Without democracy, Freedom has no chance in a governed society

[_JS]

Because you're confusing laws with the Constitution.  The constitution provides the building blocks of freedom.  people voting for more laws have a tendency to limit freedom, but democracy allows us to alter that amount of freedom vs impediment.  Without democracy, Freedom has no chance in a governed society

Now you are confusing me.

Isn't voting the inherent basis of what it means to be a democracy? Or does it require the American Constitution to be a democracy?

Without democracy, Freedom has no chance in a governed society

If freedom is the ultimate goal then why bother having a government at all? Would that not lead to the ultimate freedom?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The Constitution not only tells the government what it cannot do, it also allows the people to pass laws that insure their freedom from what  others can do to them. For example, in the US, you cannot be thrown in jail or 'transported', as the poor were, to penal colonies like Australia, for debt. In Florida, no creditor can take away your home for debt, for example.

The government can protect the citizens from the abuse of corporations to commit fraud and libel against them.

Democracy gives us the power to guarantee us at least some freedoms to act and pursue happiness.

[sirs]

Without democracy, Freedom has no chance in a governed society

If freedom is the ultimate goal then why bother having a government at all? Would that not lead to the ultimate freedom?

   So, who's going to enforce the freedom Js?  You?  Your representative perhaps......oh wait, that's starting to sound like a governing body

[_JS]

So freedom requires enforcement?

Back to the point, what makes democracy better? Is it elections?

[Xavier_Onassis]

So freedom requires enforcement?

I would say, yes. Clearly, populous countries tend to limit the freedoms of their citizens. Observe what the Chinese government has done to entire neighborhoods to move people out of centuries old neighborhoods to make way for Olympic buildings.

You can't say Mohammad was a pervert in public in Iran. You can't draw a cartoon of the King of Thailand. Not without being arrested and jailed.
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Back to the point, what makes democracy better? Is it elections?

Elections make it a democracy, don't they?

Can you describe a democracy that does not permit elections or at least some way of the citizen to tell the government how he feels it should be run?

[_JS]

I think you're right XO. I think that elections essentially define democracy.

In that sense, has the United States been an archetype of democracy? What does it mean when an individual takes office, or a party takes a majority? Is democracy served?

[sirs]

So freedom requires enforcement?

Nope, just ususally necessary in a Governed society.  In some vast rural backwood, where people simply live off the land, there generally is none (enforcement of freedoms).  In metropolitan urbanized complexes, Governing & law enforcement bodies become largely necessary to help maintain freedom, that would otherwise be "confrolled" by whatever power is in control.

Back to the point, what makes democracy better? Is it elections?

No, since back to the point, it's the Freedom that is helped brought about by Democracy

[Xavier_Onassis]

As a rule, first there are elections, and those who deprived people of their rights are removed when their party loses the election. This is what happened in South Africa, Portugal and Spain.

After the elections comes change, followed by greater freedoms.
Democracy comes first.

I suppose that in a few places like Greenland, where the locals already have freedom, then democracy of a totally independent Greenland will follow, someday.

The Danes would be happy to leave, but the Greenlanders don't think they can progress without the subsidies that Denmark provides. But that is a special case.

Global warming will be a boon to Greenland, being as more of it will be green as a result. Nearly all of Greenland is the color of ice.

[Plane]

Elections seem to allow the people to get some of what they want , through the need for pandering.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Elections seem to allow the people to get some of what they want , through the need for pandering.

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Pandering means that the people vote for what they want, as opposed to what you want? Or what?

[Plane]

Elections seem to allow the people to get some of what they want , through the need for pandering.

==============================================================================
Pandering means that the people vote for what they want, as opposed to what you want? Or what?

Hey I am a people !

Gimmee some pandering.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Hey I am a people !

Gimmee some pandering.
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You have to be more specific than that. No much more.
You can ask them to send you money, they do have a printing press.

Juniorbush got elected  (well, selected) and suddenly he was talking about how all the money we paid in taxes was our money, and we should get some back in 2001. I got a check for  $300.

But in 2002, 2003, 2004,2005, 2006 and 2007, apparently it wasn't my money and I didn't get a check.
But Oooo, now the Republicans want to elect another president, and, what a coincidence, it is time to send me more of my money back. I am supposed to spend it just to show everyone how patriotic I am.