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BT

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Religious Test?
« on: October 10, 2008, 04:20:51 AM »
Does Sarah Palin Have a Pentecostal Problem?
By Amy Sullivan

If conservative columnist William Kristol is to be believed, Sarah Palin is surprised that her own campaign hasn't made a bigger deal out of the controversial remarks of Barack Obama's former pastor. The relationship between Obama and Jeremiah Wright is, according to Palin, fair game in the presidential campaign because it speaks to the question of the Democratic candidate's character. "I don't know why that association isn't discussed more," Kristol, writing in the New York Times, quoted Palin as telling him.

John McCain's campaign aides could probably answer that question for Palin. The ink on Kristol's column had barely dried before they were on the phone to political reporters declaring that the GOP nominee had long believed it would be inappropriate to raise the Wright issue. But McCain's current sensitivity is much more related to his running mate's own pastor problems than to any newfound campaign honor code.

Palin's religious background must initially have been seen as a positive to McCain campaign vetters, who assumed that her faith would appeal to the conservative base of the party that has always been suspicious of McCain. But ever since she joined the ticket in late August, the Alaska governor's various religious affiliations have caused headaches. First came reports that her pastor at the nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church was connected to Jews for Jesus, an organization that seeks to convert Jews to Christianity. Prominent Jewish leaders, including the co-chair of McCain's Jewish outreach effort, have since demanded to know whether Palin also believes that Jews must be converted. The Bible Church became an issue again when Katie Couric asked Palin about the church's promotion of a program to help gays "overcome" their homosexuality.

And finally, a videotape surfaced of a 2005 service at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church, the Pentecostal church that Palin attended for most of her life. In the scene captured on video, Palin stands at the front of the sanctuary while a visiting African pastor prays that God will help her gubernatorial campaign and protect her "from every form of witchcraft." Later in the same service, the pastor complains that "Israelites" held too many prominent positions in business, a comment that has further alienated Jewish voters.

While the McCain campaign has promoted Palin to religious conservatives as a woman of "strong faith," they have gone to unusual lengths to avoid providing a picture of that faith. In fact, a Palin spokeswoman says the Alaska governor is "not a Pentecostal," and points out that Palin was baptized as a child as a Roman Catholic, although there is no record that her family attended Catholic services before joining the Pentecostal church where she became saved at age 11. The candidate does not even claim the Evangelical label, instead using the code phrase "Bible-believing Christian" to describe herself. Palin's official biography on the McCain campaign website makes no mention of her religious affiliation.

According to Tom Minnery, vice president of the conservative organization Focus on the Family, Palin "is absolutely unashamed of her faith ... She is from the heart of Evangelicalism, a Bible church. There are just millions of Evangelicals who know how to place her because of that church connection." But Palin herself has at times consciously distanced herself from her Evangelical faith. When asked by ABC's Charlie Gibson about a comment for which she has been criticized ? asking her former congregation to pray that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are "on a task that is from God" ? Palin argued that she had been paraphrasing an Abraham Lincoln quote. In fact, she had used fairly standard Evangelical language in expressing a desire that human actions conform with God's will. In trying to separate herself from that tradition, Palin's explanation struck both secular critics and many Evangelicals as scripted by political strategists.

And in her interview with Couric, Palin was, if not ashamed, purposefully vague about her churchgoing habits. "I don't have a church, I'm not a member of any church," she said. "I get to visit a couple of churches in Alaska when I'm home, including one, Wasilla Bible Church." Church-hopping is a common practice for many religious Americans, but it is relatively unusual for Evangelicals with children to shift among a number of churches instead of belonging to one stable faith community.

The fact is that Palin's most consistent religious home has been the Pentecostal church of her youth. Though her family left the Wasilla Assembly of God in 2002, just before she launched her campaign for lieutenant governor, Palin has continued to return. The now famous prayer to protect her from witchcraft took place during a visit in 2005, three years after Palin's official departure. She returned again as recently as June 2008, making reference to that earlier service and crediting the African pastor's prayer with leading her to gubernatorial victory. And when she works from the state capital, Palin attends the Juneau Christian Center, an Assemblies of God congregation.

It is this Pentecostal association that most concerns and confuses the McCain campaign. As Minnery makes clear, millions of Evangelicals have accepted Palin because of her membership in a Bible church. But there is no denying that mainstream Evangelicals and Pentecostals, while political allies on many social issues, have historically had significant tensions over theological differences. The Evangelicals' swoon for Palin might fade if it turns out that she continues to hold fast to Pentecostal practices and beliefs.

So what exactly is Pentecostalism, and could it really pose a political problem for Palin? Here's a brief TIME primer on the religious tradition that is such a touchy subject for the McCain campaign:

What is Pentecostalism?Pentecostals are named for the feast of Pentecost described in the New Testament Book of Acts as taking place shortly after Jesus' ascension into heaven. During the feast, his followers were said to have been "filled with the Holy Spirit" and gained the ability to speak in many different languages, or "tongues." The modern Pentecostal movement is relatively new ? just over 100 years old ? and is usually dated to the Azusa Street Revival that began in Los Angeles in 1906. (The revival was a nine-year series of near continuous worship services that popularized Pentecostal worship and practices.) Pentecostalism can be best understood as a branch within evangelical Protestantism, characterized by a focus on the Holy Spirit and a belief in spiritual gifts, such as healing and speaking in tongues.

How many Pentecostals are there?Pentecostalism is the fastest-growing Christian tradition, but it is also a diverse religious movement, so the numbers vary by definition. The World Christian Encyclopedia, however, estimates that 500 million Christians worldwide are Pentecostal, making the tradition second only to Catholicism in overall Christian numbers. Pentecostalism is now more dominant than Catholicism in South America, and it is rapidly spreading throughout Asia and Africa as well. In 30 years, Pentecostals have increased their share of the global Christian population from 6% to 25%. In the U.S., the Assemblies of God is the largest Pentecostal denomination with 2.8 million members, and it is also generally viewed as the most mainstream. The largest African-American denomination is the Church of God in Christ.

Are Pentecostals the same as Charismatics?The Charismatic movement began around the 1960s when some Christians within mainline Protestant and Roman Catholic churches adopted certain Pentecostal beliefs, including the acceptance of gifts ? or "charisms" ? from the Holy Spirit, like speaking in tongues. While Pentecostals can be broadly described as Charismatic, what distinguishes Charismatics is their desire to remain within their original traditions.

How are Pentecostal beliefs different from Evangelical theology? Almost all Pentecostals are also Evangelical, meaning they put great emphasis on the authority of the Bible, believe in spiritual conversion, conceive of a personal relationship with God and follow an imperative to "share the Good News." They also tend to share theological beliefs regarding the End Times with fundamentalists and more conservative Evangelicals. But they also believe in a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit that is subsequent to and distinct from conversion by accepting Christ as the savior and son of God. This baptism is the core doctrine that separates Pentecostals from other Evangelicals, and it is seen as manifested by physical evidence such as healing powers, speaking in tongues and even bodily inhabitation. (Some Pentecostals take "being filled with the Holy Spirit" to mean that the spirit is actually in them and moves their limbs.)

How does the praying about witchcraft fit in?Pentecostalism's heavy emphasis on the Holy Spirit appeals to converts from cultures that believe in spirit worlds, particularly cultures in Africa, and it encourages those who think there is an ongoing spiritual war between good and evil. They point to New Testament accounts of Jesus casting out evil spirits, and some argue that while many spirits may exist, the Holy Spirit is the only one "true" spirit.

Who are some famous Pentecostals?Some of the most prominent televangelists have been Pentecostal, including Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and T.D. Jakes. John Ashcroft, the former U.S. Attorney General and Senator from Missouri, is a member of the Assemblies of God and is the first Pentecostal to have attained such high political office.

Are Pentecostals politically conservative? A diverse range of political opinions is part of the general variety within Pentecostalism. Some Pentecostals are very active in social ministries, while other focus almost exclusively on individual salvation (early Pentecostal missionaries used to buy one-way tickets to their destinations, believing that the End Times were imminent). In some regions like South America, Pentecostals are part of the most liberal political movements. In general, white Pentecostals tend to be mostly politically conservative and concerned with social issues. But a 2006 Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life Survey found that they are more likely than other Evangelicals to support active government, a position that reflects their lower income status. Nearly 20% of American Pentecostals are Latino, and they make up a rapidly growing constituency in the U.S. that supported George W. Bush in 2004 but is shifting over in greater numbers behind Barack Obama this year. In addition, a handful of African-American Pentecostals hold high positions within the Democratic Party, including Joshua Dubois, Obama's religious outreach director, and Leah Daughtry, chief of staff at the Democratic National Committee.

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1848420,00.html

Brassmask

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 01:23:02 PM »
And finally, a videotape surfaced of a 2005 service at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church, the Pentecostal church that Palin attended for most of her life. In the scene captured on video, Palin stands at the front of the sanctuary while a visiting African pastor prays that God will help her gubernatorial campaign and protect her "from every form of witchcraft." Later in the same service, the pastor complains that "Israelites" held too many prominent positions in business, a comment that has further alienated Jewish voters.


So, it appears to me that those of you on the right now face a political strategy question.

Do you bring up the non-issue of Obama's relationship with Reverend Wright again and beat it like the dead horse it is and hope that the negatives from Palin's reverend problem don't match any possible negatives derived from beating that dead horse

OR

Do you ignore the Wright issue and hope that Palin's reverend problem just hangs out there in the background?

BT

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 06:06:20 PM »
If it were me i would fight bigotry with bigotry.

Say has anyone noticed Obama is black?

sirs

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 06:55:57 PM »
You're kidding...He is?       ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 03:04:15 PM »
And finally, a videotape surfaced of a 2005 service at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church, the Pentecostal church that Palin attended for most of her life. In the scene captured on video, Palin stands at the front of the sanctuary while a visiting African pastor prays that God will help her gubernatorial campaign and protect her "from every form of witchcraft." Later in the same service, the pastor complains that "Israelites" held too many prominent positions in business, a comment that has further alienated Jewish voters.


So, it appears to me that those of you on the right now face a political strategy question.

Do you bring up the non-issue of Obama's relationship with Reverend Wright again and beat it like the dead horse it is and hope that the negatives from Palin's reverend problem don't match any possible negatives derived from beating that dead horse

OR

Do you ignore the Wright issue and hope that Palin's reverend problem just hangs out there in the background?

Not so much , if this allows another visit to the Reverend Wright it could work out quite well.

We could loose the Whichcraft vote , they could loose the vote of people who want God to Bless America.

I don't mean to offend Terra , I miss her input, but the God Bless America voting block outnumbers the devotees of Hecate by an order of magnitude.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 03:21:16 PM »
God will bless, or not bless, America, regardless of who is president.

I don't see Palin's religion as nearly the problem that her ignorance might pose.

Talking in tongues seems silly to me because there never seems to be anyone about that seems to understand in tongues.

Years ago, in Mexico, a girl invited me to a pentecostal service. The preacher was trained in the US. He started "speaking in tongues" and I am sure that he was repeating, over and over, several sentences from the Robert Lada textbook that was used almost universally in ESL classes. "I can't go to the market today. Oh, God! Tomorrow we get paid at my job" Jesus, was one of them, I think, scattered with pieces of the Lord's Prayer.

But I don't see a president or VP speaking in tongues as much of a problem, so long as she is in church.

When she talks about how she wants conservative justices on the Court, and cannot name even ONE decision other than Roe v. Wade that she disagreed with, well that is lame and shows that her "conservatism" is based on what others have told her to say rather than any actual, personal thought process. Ignorance is not a feature anyone needs in a leader.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2008, 06:37:39 PM »
God will bless, or not bless, America, regardless of who is president.


I suppose he can , but why should he?

richpo64

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 06:41:42 PM »
>>I suppose he can , but why should he?<<

Interesting question. Will God forsake America if someone who practices a perverted, racist form of Christianity is it's leader? Or is it all part of his plan to remove the cancer that is the democrat party once and for all?

We'll see.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Religious Test?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 06:50:30 PM »
So, you feel that God has a special place in his heart for wrmongering liars like Juniorbush?

I think one might make a good case  for Juniorbush being a cursed. We have been less than blessed since he was elected.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."