Author Topic: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .  (Read 5376 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2008, 03:25:10 AM »
Huh?  The market was both micromanaged AND lacked oversight??

sirs

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2008, 04:14:31 AM »
Yes....the oversight unfortunately wasn't part of what the government was micromanaging
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2008, 05:24:35 AM »


The market just fucked up big-time, plane, did you not notice?



Wasn't that Bush at fault?

The market did not do badly for very long.

Amianthus

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2008, 08:18:29 AM »
The most expensive cost of the US govt, are wars past and present. The last war was of no benefit to anyone.

The majority of US spending is on domestic social programs, not military spending. This has been true for a large number of years now...
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2008, 11:24:02 AM »
Wasn't that Bush at fault?

The market did not do badly for very long.

======================================================

The money and credit markets are majorly fucked up.  Or are you saying that they won't be needing that $700 billion bail-out any more?

Michael Tee

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2008, 11:28:38 AM »
<<The majority of US spending is on domestic social programs, not military spending. This has been true for a large number of years now...>>

Obviously they're not spending nearly enough on domestic social programs.  Healthcare, housing and public education suck and now it looks like the transportation infrastructure (roads, bridges) is in need of massive repair as well.  Where do the needed funds come from if not military budgets?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2008, 04:49:45 PM »
Officially the feds admit to be spending 10 billion a month on Iraq. There are also hidden unmentioned items in the budget that are not mentioned. Could they actually be spending more on civilian purposes than on the military and wars present and past (ie the VA)?

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2008, 11:38:59 PM »
Officially the feds admit to be spending 10 billion a month on Iraq. There are also hidden unmentioned items in the budget that are not mentioned. Could they actually be spending more on civilian purposes than on the military and wars present and past (ie the VA)?

« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 11:40:40 PM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2008, 11:45:09 PM »
SocialSecurity and Medicare are paid for out of their deductions.
That means defense is the largest part of the budget.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2008, 11:52:53 PM »
SocialSecurity and Medicare are paid for out of their deductions.

It all goes into the same pool of funds, and it all goes out on one budget.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2008, 11:55:06 PM »
Then there is the secret budget for clandestine operations.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

richpo64

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2008, 06:35:28 PM »
>>Or are you saying that they won't be needing that $700 billion bail-out any more?<<

Some banks don't think so. They aren't releasing the funds, they're banking them for when they really need them.

Banks Likely to Hold Tight to Bailout Money
October 17, 2008, 7:45 am Link to This
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Topics Investment BankingIndustries Financial Services
Even as the government moves to plug holes in the nation’s banks, new gaps keep appearing.

As two financial giants, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch, reported fresh multibillion-dollar losses on Thursday, the industry passed a grim milestone: All of the combined profits that major banks earned in recent years have vanished.

Since mid-2007, when the credit crisis erupted, the country’s nine largest banks have written down the value of their troubled assets by a combined $323 billion. With a recession looming, the pain is unlikely to end there. The problems that began with home mortgages, analysts say, are migrating to auto, credit card and commercial real estate loans.

The deepening red ink, The New York Times’s Louise Story and Eric Dash write, underscores a crucial question about the government’s plan: Will lenders deploy their new-found capital quickly, as the Treasury hopes, and unlock the flow of credit through the economy? Or will they hoard the money to protect themselves?

John A. Thain, the chief executive of Merrill Lynch, said on Thursday that banks were unlikely to act swiftly. Executives at other banks privately expressed a similar view.

“We will have the opportunity to redeploy that,” Mr. Thain said of the new capital on a telephone call with analysts. “But at least for the next quarter, it’s just going to be a cushion.”

Granted, the banks are in a deep hole. For every dollar the banks earned during the industry’s most prosperous years, they have now wiped out $1.06.

Even with the capital from the government, analysts say, the banking industry still needs to raise around $275 billion in light of the looming losses.

But Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. is urging them to use their new capital soon. On Monday, Mr. Paulson unveiled plans to provide $125 billion to nine banks on terms that were more favorable than they would have received in the marketplace. The government, however, has offered no written requirements about how or when the banks must use the money.

rest of the article: http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/banks-are-likely-to-hold-tight-to-bailout-money/

crocat

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2008, 07:23:50 PM »
<<Even when not excessive each dollar removed from the economy by the government is a dollar less invested in production , or a dollar less availible for hireing people for jobs.>>

How can that be?&nbsp; It's a buck that goes into hiring federal employees or soldiers, producing anthrax in the nation's chemical warfare labs, paying contractors to produce nuclear subs . . .

The money doesn't disappear into a black hole, it goes SOMEWHERE.

<<There is certqainly a minimum requirement for the government to do its job well , this sould be the basis for the amount taxed , every bit more than that is an injury to the effeciency of the economy.>>

But that's what happens - - they make up budgets, and estimates, and then they try to raise the money they need for the estimates through bonds and taxes.

<<There is a lot of infrastructure that the Government must provide and a lot that the Private sector can do better , where there is overlap sould we err on the side of government ? I don't see why we should , our historical experience is that the welth gets shared rather poorly by agency of the govenment and rather well by agency of employment and entrepenural oppurtunity. >>

I don't know on what you base your belief that the private sector can do better, in many cases it is a myth.&nbsp; Health care, for example.&nbsp; Government has only one objective, the welfare of the people, private enterprise also has only one objective, private profit.&nbsp; Government is responsible to the people and private enterprise is responsible to its owner.&nbsp; Obviously private enterprise is run by a bunch of irresponsible schmucks whose only objective is to enrich themselves obscenely and bale out just before the crash.&nbsp; As we have seen.&nbsp; How in the light of this latest disaster can you possibly maintain that private enterprise is some kind of beneficial force?

<<When there is a choice about how an need is met it is far better to placed the confidence in the market than the congress to get it done with effeciency.>>

The market just fucked up big-time, plane, did you not notice?


Our cumulative running total of government waste is:

$1,230,956,867,592.00

Federal employees wasted at least $146 million over a one-year period in business- or first-class airline tickets bought in violation of travel policies, congressional investigators say.

It looks like Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., is going to get his wish – $2 million in taxpayer funding for a library commemorating his 37 years in the House of Representatives. The Charles B. Rangel Center for Public service will serve as a repository for his "papers," and the congressman will have his own office in the Harlem complex.

The earned income tax credit (EITC) provides $31 billion in refundable tax credits to 19 million low-income families. The IRS estimates that $8.5 billion to $9.9 billion of this amount—nearly one-third—is wasted in overpayments.

A recent audit revealed that between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department purchased and then left unused approximately 270,000 commercial airline tickets at a total cost of $100 million.

Since World War II, the U.S. has spent $1.2 trillion on foreign aid to 70 countries – and all are worse off than they were in 1980, according to the U.N.

For the Department of Commerce for giving the City and County of Honolulu $28,600 in 1981 to study how they could spend another $250,000 for a good surfing beach.

For the Health Care Financing Administration for Medicaid payments to psychiatrists for unscheduled, coincidental meetings with patients who were attending basketball games, sitting on stoops, etc. -- the cost of which was between $40 and $80 million from 1981 to 1984.

The National Endowment for the Humanities for a $25,000 grant in 1977 to study why people cheat, lie and act rudely on local Virginia tennis courts.

The Office of Education for spending $219,592 in 1978 to develop a curriculum to teach college students how to watch television.

The Environmental Protection Agency for spending an extra $1 million to $1.2 million in 1980 to preserve a Trenton, NJ sewer as a historical monument.

In 2005 - $469,000 for the National Wildlife Turkey Federation in South Carolina

In 2005 - $100,000 for the Punxsatawny Weather Discovery Center Museum

In 2005 - $350,000 for the Inner Harmony Foundation and Wellness Center in Scranton, Penn.

In 2005 - $1,430,000 for various Halls of Fame, including $250,000 for the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum in Nashville, Tenn., and $70,000 for the Paper Industry International Hall of Fame in Appleton, Wis.;

Medicare, the U.S. health-insurance program for the elderly and disabled, erroneously paid out $19.9 billion during fiscal 2004, up from $19.6 billion a year earlier, because of mistakes, waste and fraud, a government report said. In most cases, hospitals and doctors billed for medically unnecessary services or didn't provide proper documentation to support the fees for services.

The GAO estimated that between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department spent an estimated $100 million for airline tickets that were not used over a six-year period and failed to seek refunds even though the tickets were reimbursable.

While Andrew Cuomo was HUD Secretary under Bill Clinton, the agency set up a "Creative Wellness" program that spent $1,100,000 million taxpayer dollars on “gem” bags and taught public tenants to burn incense.

The study, titled "Status/Dominance and Motivational Effects on Nonverbal Sensitivity and Smiling," attempts to find out if it's really true that women smile more than men, and if people of higher status smile less. Judith Hall, a highly respected researcher at Northeastern University in Boston, is conducting the smile study — and it is not her first. Since 1993, she has been awarded more than $500,000.

A National Science Foundation study looking at whether White House reporters have become more adversarial sounds a bit strange to reporters and critics. Even more surprising: the study cost taxpayers $180,000.

In 2001 more than $600,000 in tax money was spent on researching the sex lives of South African ground squirrels.

The head of the IRS sent out a notice to every person advising them that they would be receiving a tax refund in 2001 - the estimated cost $30,000,000.

In 1998 more than $800,000 was approved for a coal library in Pennsylvania. Defenders staed that it would provide historical insight into a very important part of Pennsylvania and history.

In 2001 the U.S.. Government gave $5,000,000 to the University of Alaska, North Pacific University, and the Alaska Fisheries Development Foundation to fund the "stellar sea lion recovery plan."

In the year 2001, Congress appropriated $340,000,000 in federal tax dollars to PBS (Public Broadcasting Services).

In 1999 the U.S. government spent $500,000 for a Mississippi research project on "manure handling and disposal".

In 1999 the U.S. government spent $1,500,000 million to promote silk production in Laos

In 1999 the U.S. government spent $1 ,000,000 for the "eradication of Brown Tree Snakes" (Hawaii).

In 1999 the U.S. government spent $1,000,000 to "develop and train Alaska natives for employment in the petroleum industry."

In 1999 the U.S. government spent $500,000 for water taxis in Savannah (Georgia)

In 1999 the U.S. government spent $200,000 for a transit center for the Toledo Mud Hens minor league baseball team.

In 1999 $1,200,000 million to subsidize a park on the Galapagos Islands.

In 2000 the U.S. government spent $100,000 to study the causes of sediment buildup at a Santa Cruz, New Mexico dam.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $50,000 for a tattoo removal program in San Luis Obispo, California.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $400,000 for the Montana Sheep Institute to improve the profitability of the state's sheep industry.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $273,000 for the Blue Springs (Missouri) Youth Orchestra Outreach Unit for educational training to combat Goth culture

In 2003 the U.S. government spent $1,000,000 appropriation for the Center for Public Service and the Common Good (a think tank) at the University of San Francisco.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $400,000 for manure management research at the National Swine Research Center.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $1,100,000 for the MountainMade Foundation in Thomas, West Virginia for business development and the education of artists and craftspeople.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $4,000,000 to implement the forest and fish report of the Washington State.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $500,000 for exhibits on the Sullivan brothers at the Grout Museum in Waterloo, Iowa.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $61,000 for the State Historical Society to archive the history of Iowa workers.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $1,200,000 for the Ohio Arts Council to expand international programs.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $2,900,000 for the Mountaineer Doctor Television program at West Virginia University;

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $2,000,000 for an educational mall at the Raleigh County Commission in Beckley.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $2,000,000 for West Virginia University to establish a Center on Obesity.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $260,000 for asparagus technology in the stae of Washington.

In 2002 the U.S. government spent $1,200,000 for music education at the GRAMMY Foundation

In 2000 the U.S. government spent $50,000 for the development of a Welcome Center Facility City for Enumclaw, Washington.

In 1997 - $4,000,000 for the Gambling Impact Study Commission.

In 1997 - $330,000 for Stellar Sea Lion research of the North Pacific Universities Marine Mammal Consortium.

In 1997 - $785,000 for bluefish/striped bass research by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

In 1997 - $2,700,000 added by the Senate for the Animal Resource Wing at South Dakota State University

In 1997 - $4,000,000 added in conference for the Discovery Center of Science and Technology.

In 1997 - $19,600,000 added by the House for the International Fund for Ireland, a program that tries to aid the peace process in Ireland by paying for golf videos, pony trekking centers, and sweater exports.

In 1997 - $16,369,000 added by the Senate for public library construction.

In 1997 - $9,469,000 added in conference for Migrant Education programs including: $7,441,000 for the High School Equivalency Program; and $2,028,000 for the College Assistance Migrant Program

In 1997 - $3,100,000 added by the Senate for the National Writing Project.

In 1997 - $8,200,000 for a new classroom building at the Rowley Secret Service Training Center in Beltsville, Maryland, which is the district of House Treasury, Postal Service and General Government Appropriations subcommittee member Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) and the state of Senate appropriator Barbara A. Mikulski (D-Md.).

In 1998 - $220,000 added by the Senate for lowbush blueberry research in Maine.

In 1994 - $221,000 for lowbush blueberry research at the University of Maine in the state of Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell (D-ME).

In 1998 - $150,000 added by the House for the National Center for Peanut Competitiveness.

In 1998 - $127,000 added by the Senate for global marketing support services in the state of Senate appropriator Dale Bumpers (D-Ark.). According to testimony, the goal of this research is to identify “potential foreign markets for Arkansas products….”

In 1998 - $32,000 added by the Senate for the Center for Rural Studies in the state of Senate appropriator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.). A portion of this grant money is used for analytical reports to guide the development of Vermont retail shopping areas

In 1998 - $500,000 added by the House in the district of House appropriator Richard Durbin (D-IL) for the construction at the Lincoln Home National Historic Site, Illinois, of Chalres Corneau’s house, a neighbor and friend of Abraham Lincoln.

In 1998 - $10,912,000 added by the Senate for foreign language assistance.

In 1994 - $200,000 for locoweed research at New Mexico State University in the state of House appropriator Joe Skeen (R-NM). Since 1992, $716,000 has been appropriated, and there is no expected completion date for this research.

In 1994 - $1,000,000 added in the Senate for the Multispecies Aquaculture Center in the state of Senate appropriator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)

In 1994 - $19,600,000 added in the House for the International Fund for Ireland. The conference report “restores language stricken by the Senate and appropriates up to $19,600,000 for the International Fund for Ireland.” In the past, this program has used American taxpayer dollars for a golf video and pony trekking centers.

In 1993 - $19,704,000 for the International Fund for Ireland requested, according to committee sources, by House Speaker Thomas Foley (D-WA).

In 1993 - $9,170,000 added in conference for the Southwestern Pennsylvania Heritage Preservation Commission in the district of House appropriator John Murtha (D-PA)

In 1992 - $2,000,000 added in conference by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) for a New York Bight Center for undersea research.

 Sorry, Michael.... but yes it does go somewhere....http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Governmentwaste.htm

Amianthus

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2008, 09:49:00 PM »
Then there is the secret budget for clandestine operations.

That's included in the military budget, it just has it's various sources obscured.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Just one blogger's comment, but very perceptive . . .
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2008, 01:33:08 AM »
<<Sorry, Michael.... but yes it does go somewhere....>>

About a trillion, from the link.  While the cost of the Iraq war is three trillion.

When you read through the list of government "waste," the first thing that occurs to me is that some of those projects may be waste, or they could be very beneficial.  Certain marine studies, for example.  They're waste, basically, because the anti-government fanatic running the site has called them "waste."

The other obvious flaw in the reasoning is the total lack of any yardstick, any means of comparison with the "waste" of private industry.  $300 million golden parachutes for departing executives whose net effect on corporate bottom lines has been negative to zero.  Corporate rip-offs of the public from the Teapot Dome scandals of the 1920s right up to this year.  Lear jets, hookers, spas, vactions, hotels, $30,000 bottles of vintage French wine, casino gambling - - the Kings of Rip-Off seem to me to be in corporate America not in government.  And their frauds affect us all.