The Death of American Imperialism

[Plane]

<<I think that they should have tried some. [non-violent resistance]>>

I think they tried way too much.

I don't think that they were useing the method in the way that it works , if they had sent a few guys to learn the tecnique they might have gotten somewhere.

There used to be jobs for them and the walls used to be a lot smaller, the progress of their failure and the increaseing violence of their movement are coincidental.

Lately the Hezbollah has settled for looseing only ten times as many men in battle as constituting a major victory , this is the weak useing strength against the strong.

Strength works better for the strong.

[Michael Tee]

<<I don't think that they were useing the method in the way that it works , if they had sent a few guys to learn the tecnique they might have gotten somewhere.>>

Well, in the twenty years from 1967 to 1987 (the start of the First Intifada) how could their non-violence have been better practiced?  What were they doing wrong before they turned to the Intifada in 1987?  what bad non-violence practices were they using that resulted in a twenty-year armed occupation and the gradual build-up of Israeli settlements all around them?

<<There used to be jobs for them and the walls used to be a lot smaller, the progress of their failure and the increaseing violence of their movement are coincidental.>>

So are you saying that in the twenty years that intervened between the start of the occupation of the West Bank and the start of the First Intifada, their condition under the occupation was slowly improving?

[Plane]

<<I don't think that they were useing the method in the way that it works , if they had sent a few guys to learn the tecnique they might have gotten somewhere.>>

Well, in the twenty years from 1967 to 1987 (the start of the First Intifada) how could their non-violence have been better practiced?  What were they doing wrong before they turned to the Intifada in 1987?  what bad non-violence practices were they using that resulted in a twenty-year armed occupation and the gradual build-up of Israeli settlements all around them?

<<There used to be jobs for them and the walls used to be a lot smaller, the progress of their failure and the increaseing violence of their movement are coincidental.>>

So are you saying that in the twenty years that intervened between the start of the occupation of the West Bank and the start of the First Intifada, their condition under the occupation was slowly improving?

This is such a long story that I feel unequal to the telling.
But their bad situation was worsened by violence and I kinda expect this to be a consistant result.


Ghandi says-    “Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected”
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/mahatma_gandhi/


In the threat and fight and conquer mode you have to win to get what you want , it is a zero sum game . If I wanted the money in your wallet and attacked you for it you might fight me even if you and I both knew that you owed it to me.

The Palestinians never were non-violent they were just from time to time less violent, and that is very diffrent  .

A conqured people that simply throws in the towel to stop being killed is not now non violent they are subdued .

About three hundred years ago Slaves in the USA had a very hard life about two hundred years ago Nat Turner made it worse .

The Civil war was a conflict that did not even include them as participants at first but near the end there were hundreds who demonstrated that they were not deficient in courage.

The Improvement imposed from without is very simular to President Bushes intention in Iraq (I am not buying the "controll " of Oil stuff).

The result was an improvement in their condition , but how much?


Leo knew the reason,-All violence consists in some people forcing others, under threat of suffering or death, to do what they do not want to do.
Leo Tolstoy http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/l/leo_tolstoy.html

Then we find Dr. Martin Luther King Junior who has studied non-violence as a tecnique for change a method developed over the pervious two generations.

It is not just lieing there with a boot on your neck , it is protesting effectively impressing on your brothers who are wearing those boots how they will survive the ceaseing to do you wrong.


Thomas Jefferson would have liked a good talk with Henry David Thoreau , Leo Tolstoy , Ghandi , and MLKJr.  but he was too early , he didn't have this worked out , he said of Slavery that it was a bad situation something like holding a wolf by the ears , he didn't expect that a released Negro population would behave diffrently than Nat Turner or Denmark Vessey, he might have been right untill the leadership learns non-violence they do not know how to credit it as real.