Author Topic: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'  (Read 2339 times)

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hnumpah

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Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« on: September 26, 2006, 05:38:04 PM »
Crying Kids Pray Over George Bush At Jesus Camp
Film Documents Childrens' Summer At 'Jesus Camp'

POSTED: 9:08 am EDT September 26, 2006

LOS ANGELES -- The new documentary "Jesus Camp" is shocking Christians and non-Christians alike with its scenes of children sobbing and crying out to God at a Pentecostal summer camp in North Dakota.

The film follows Midwestern children Rachael, now 10, Levi, now 13, and Tory, now 11, who attended Fischer's Bible camp in Devils Lake, N.D., in 2005, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Filmmaker Heidi Ewing said she was raised Catholic and her co-director, Rachel Grady, is Jewish, enabling them to present what they hope is a neutral view of Pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" program.

Grady said Fischer let them make the documentary in hopes of reaching unsaved people.

In the film, the children cheered when asked if they'd be willing to give up their lives for Jesus, prayed over a cardboard cutout of President George W. Bush and cried as they pleaded for an end to abortion, the Los Angeles Times reported. The paper said that one of the children is home-schooled by a mother who teaches that "science doesn't prove anything."

Ewing said the children explained that they wept because God's heart is broken over a lost and sinful world. But she added that the children didn't seem unhappy -- just more intense than the average American child. Grady said all of the kids plan to become missionaries.

Some critics have labeled the camp a frightening example of brainwashing and child abuse.

"This is war! Are you part of it or not?," Fischer shouted at the children during the film.

Fischer proudly compared her Bible camp to indoctrination of young boys by extremist Muslims.

"If you look at the world's population, one third of that 6.7 billion people are children under the age of 15," Fischer said. "Where should we be putting our efforts? Where should we be putting our focus? I'll tell you where our enemies are putting it. They're putting it on the kids. They're going into the schools."

Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.

"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."

The filmmakers told the Times that they want the film to "make a broad statement about how politics and faith have become inexorably intertwined in America."

Fischer said that she plans to help promote the movie and that she is grateful for the national attention she's gotten from the movie and its controversy.

"I couldn't have paid for this kind of advertising," she said.

In the About Film section of the movie's Web site, it describes the movie as follows:

A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement. Jesus Camp follows a group of young children to Pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire Summer Camp", where kids are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in God's army and are schooled in how to take back America for Christ. The film is a first-ever look into an intense training ground that recruits born-again Christian children to become an active part of America's political future.

"Jesus Camp" is already open in New York and will open in 20 more cities across the United States Oct. 6.


http://www.wftv.com/family/9935738/detail.html
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Plane

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 11:15:16 PM »
   Is there anything wrong with Penticostal Parents raiseing Pentacostal Kids?


    I have been an adult at one of these camps several times, I had a blast with all the kids , the camp is 90% simular to secular camps with swimming , hikeing ,knot tying wood carveing etc..

    But at the end of the day we would rally round Jesus.

    Got a problem wid that?

hnumpah

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 11:38:00 PM »
Quote
Got a problem wid that?


Nope. Got a problem wid dese:

Quote
...one of the children is home-schooled by a mother who teaches that "science doesn't prove anything."

Quote
Fischer proudly compared her Bible camp to indoctrination of young boys by extremist Muslims.

Quote
..."I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."

"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Lanya

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 12:15:04 AM »
From my sons' experiences at a Pentecostal church camp, this sounds...way, way  more extreme. 

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Plane

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 12:48:56 AM »
What is the government limit on what yopu may teach your children?


What should the government limit be?

hnumpah

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 01:02:37 AM »
Quote
What is the government limit on what yopu may teach your children?
What should the government limit be?

Not sure where they draw the line. But if you insist parents should be allowed to teach their kids to disregard science and remain ignorant, or to strap on bombs and blow up unbelievers, then we're nowhere near close on this one. I'd be just as loathe to live under the threat of Christian extremism as I would be to live under the threat of Islamic extremism.
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Plane

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 01:11:59 AM »
Quote
What is the government limit on what yopu may teach your children?
What should the government limit be?

Not sure where they draw the line. But if you insist parents should be allowed to teach their kids to disregard science and remain ignorant, or to strap on bombs and blow up unbelievers, then we're nowhere near close on this one. I'd be just as loathe to live under the threat of Christian extremism as I would be to live under the threat of Islamic extremism.


Is this the most extreme fundamentalist Christian indoctrination you could find?
They don't seem to be encourageing violence or suicide.

In the Muslim world encouragement for violence and suicide is rampant with every "fundamentalist" south of "moderate".

There is a false equivalency being postulated.

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 01:19:55 PM »
Quote
In the Muslim world encouragement for violence and suicide is rampant with every "fundamentalist" south of "moderate".

Evidence?
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The_Professor

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 07:36:57 PM »
...one of the children is home-schooled by a mother who teaches that "science doesn't prove anything."

This can be true or false. Many of science's "proofs" over the years have been later proven to be incorrect.

Is this an attack on homeschooling? I homeschooled my daughter from 4th grade on and her SAT score was around 1400 and she is well-adjusted. I homeschooled for various rwasons, one of which was the inaccuracy and of science.

Plane

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 10:26:22 PM »
Quote
In the Muslim world encouragement for violence and suicide is rampant with every "fundamentalist" south of "moderate".

Evidence?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa

Due to administrative mishandling, radical political indoctrination of students and adopting a more conservative view of the simple teachings of Islam, especially in certain Muslim countries such as Pakistan, the madrasahs nowadays are frequently deemed as ideological and political training grounds for hatred against the West. In Pakistan in particular, the heavy emphasis on religious teachings to the exclusion of more economically viable subject areas has been criticised. There are also many allegations and documented cases of physical abuse in madrasahs, especially in the UK, such as corporal punishment, beatings and other such practices; such criticisms are usually limited to western countries, as practices such as these are an established pedagogic norm in many nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh or Nigeria. There have also been a few claims of sexual abuse in some Madrasahs, although such cases are extremely rare. These critical elements have forced government to regulate and the madrasah more. The Western media to some extent is also criticized for producing misleading reports on madrasahs[citation needed].


http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21654.pdf#search=%22Madrasa%22

One source reports that even in more moderate (“quietist”) schools, students are
often instructed to reject the “immoral” and “materialistic” Western culture.11 Some
Western and Islamic educators also express concern that these quietist madrasas, with
their defined curricula and dated pedagogical techniques, such as rote memorization,
produce individuals who are neither skilled nor prepared for the modern workforce.
Defenders of the madrasa system view its traditional pedagogical approach as a way to
preserve an authentic Islamic heritage. Because most madrasa graduates have access to
only to a limited type of education, they commonly are employed in the religious sector
as preachers, prayer leaders, and Islamic scholars.


http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1627&l=1

Alongside this very gentle prodding, the government is offering madrasas some carrots for good behaviour: free Islamic and modern textbooks and other rewards, including salaries for teachers. Most madrasas have shrugged off both aspects of the plan and have said they will resist any attempts to secularise education. The religious organisations already banned by the government continue to run schools and to produce militant literature.

Both the clergy and independent observers see the government's plans as measures aimed at assuaging international opinion. In fact, the government's apparent policy shift represents not real change but rather continuity of the military's alliance with the United States and its patron-client relationship with the Pakistani clergy.

U.S. support gives international legitimacy to the military's role in Pakistani politics. A madrasa sector the autonomy of which remains untouched and that is not forced to reform is unlikely to confront the military. On the contrary, the clergy remains a vocal supporter of a politically dominant military and its India policy. This explains why the government's madrasa reforms are cosmetic and lack substance, legal muscle or an intent to institutionalise long-term change.

Plane

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 10:27:37 PM »
Quote
In the Muslim world encouragement for violence and suicide is rampant with every "fundamentalist" south of "moderate".

Evidence?




You want better evidence than the differing numbers of suicidal warriors produced by the two diffrent systems?

Plane

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Re: Send your kiddies to 'Jesus Camp'
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 10:34:58 PM »
Quote
Got a problem wid that?


Nope. Got a problem wid dese:

Quote
...one of the children is home-schooled by a mother who teaches that "science doesn't prove anything."

Quote
Fischer proudly compared her Bible camp to indoctrination of young boys by extremist Muslims.

Quote
..."I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."





What is science that you should trust it with all decisions?

Science will be what the government says it is .

The best role of science is to make the truth evident , not to produce and enforce an orthodoxy.



I would like to be proud of the comparison with Madrassas also but Madrasas are getting famous for being anti - intelectual I would prefer a higher standard to compare with in the first place , why shoot so low?

It is stated kinda harshly , but children should indeed be introduced to the notion that there are causes worthy of ones life , but they should be made familliar with the concept of devoteing ones life dayly to a worthy cause as being preferable or even superior to giveing ones life away in a sudden and short act of violent virtue.