Author Topic: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?  (Read 6212 times)

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sirs

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2010, 12:14:23 AM »
Majority of America...Majority of New Yorkers.  Those "everyone"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2010, 12:30:25 AM »
Perhaps it would be easier to just take out an ad in the New York Times. Thank everyone for their concern.

sirs

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2010, 01:22:07 AM »
Naaa, I've read the Times.  I have no desire to supplement their income
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Henny

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2010, 01:35:36 AM »
Surprising take on this, Henny. My argument for the Mosque is also two-fold. As you stated it is Un- American to deny Muslims the right to build their Mosque wherever they choose as long as it conforms to existing building codes. And secondly i don't buy "the salt in the wound" argument because that sanctifies the notion that all Muslims share Bin Laden and his band of Merry Men's guilt. And i just don't buy that.

You know, you're right BT. It just goes to show how jaded I am becoming over here in Muslim-land, also forgetting that American-variety Muslims are a much more pleasant group in general. However, the fact that they are considering that very location smells like a statement to me.

Henny

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2010, 02:09:52 AM »
I don't know if Henny is prejudiced, bigoted or whatever. I never got that impression from exchanges with her all these years. I see no need to lump her in with others who disagree. In fact that seems to be a major difference in mindset between you and I.

And she never expressed sympathy with the idea that the mosque is a symbol of the religion behind the attack on the WTC or that the religion shares guilt with Bin Laden.

She didn't post the Buchanan article excusing prejudice. I believe that was you.

Well, here's the problem - I find myself becoming "bigoted" in a certain manner. But I am writing from another country where Islam is shoved down my throat 24/7. An anecdotal example: I was grocery shopping the other day and had a bottle of water in my purse. When I opened my bag to get my money out to pay, the cashier saw the water and threatened to call the police because I might actually DRINK that water during the fasting hours of Ramadan.

I went "Detroit" on him (in Arabic) and the little boy ended up backing down - but no apology... just a look of disgust and shock that I was breaking their precious fast. Even knowing that I am not one of them.

I have learned more about Sharia than I could have possibly ever grasped living in the U.S. I live in a country governed by Sharia law (albeit not to the extent that Saudi Arabia is). Still - family law matters especially - are governed by religious law. That's quite enough for me.

So my perspective is, indeed, very colored. And in this past year, I think I have finally come to terms with what bothers me the most about it: there have always been discussions between people about how the Bible and the Quran are similar in terms of the violence and antiquated justice methods advocated - an eye for an eye, for example. The major difference that I finally grasped is that Muslims RULE with their antiquated laws... where the Bible is (for most) a guidebook on faith. Western Christians aren't using the literal word of their holy book to rule their countries. Muslims ARE.

All in all, the Muslim world is a prime example of the dangers of a theocracy.

And as for my son, I never knew what it would be like here - and I would give anything to get him out of religious education in school because of it. But I can't do that because it is LAW here that every student have Islam classes... even Christian children. Christian schools are obliged to hire an Imam to teach Islam - although they also have Christianity classes. Oh, and let's not forget that the science textbooks and history textbooks, social studies textbooks (et al) are also littered with religious references and praise to allah. So even without religious education per se, they get it in each and every class. What this all means for me is that I have to do more education at home - which is fine - but it is more work than I would have expected. I have to take the edge off of the total immersion. And it is very important for me to teach him American ideals and history as well, because I sure as hell don't want it taught to him through the Arab-Muslim eyes. (We're working on the Pledge of Allegiance now - anything to take the edge off of what he will be learning as he enters 1st grade.)

(And to answer the question my entire family asks: why don't you just come HOME??? Well, I have a really freaking awesome job that I would have to be torn away from. Plus - you guys are still in a recession. Hello, 15% unemployment in Michigan where all of my roots are??)

Now, coming back down off my rant and back to American Muslims: by moving to the U.S. or being born in the U.S., they leave the antiquated justice systems behind and are actually better representatives of their faith than any Middle Eastern Muslim. And no, I don't think that they are Bin Laden variety Muslims. BUT it is the height of bad taste to build the mosque so close to Ground Zero. Perhaps the builders of the mosque don't mean any harm. Maybe they really mean to show themselves as peaceful, loving people who simply want to educate a community. Fine. Build the mosque somewhere else in NYC. Educate the people. But the idea of having it a Ground Zero really, really bothers me. And remains an incredibly stupid idea.

BT

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2010, 03:52:20 AM »
Naaa, I've read the Times.  I have no desire to supplement their income
I'm sure if Rauf ran the ad telling everyone in America  and everyone in NYC to pound sand you wouldn't be responsible for it.

BT

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2010, 03:55:00 AM »
Henny,

I agree democracy and a bill of rights moderates things a bit.

sirs

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2010, 03:57:11 AM »
Naaa, I've read the Times.  I have no desire to supplement their income
I'm sure if Rauf ran the ad telling everyone in America  and everyone in NYC to pound sand you wouldn't be responsible for it.

Ummmm, whatever that was supposed to mean
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2010, 04:11:12 AM »
Quote
Ummmm, whatever that was supposed to mean

It means what it says.

sirs

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2010, 04:21:19 AM »
Like I said...whatever that's supposed to mean.  Can we exit this tit for tat highway, we seem to be on.  Miss Henny has provided some outstanding insight, and a reinforcement of just how bad a location this proposed Mosque is.  Much more substantive material than what the Imam may or may not post in the Times, and how my responsibilty is at all relevent
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2010, 11:44:07 AM »
Islam incorporates the very worst idea that human beings have ever come up with, which I guess came originally from Egypt: that the government and the state religion should be united in a common purpose. It is also a bad idea in Israel, Why should the world need a Jewish state or Muslim states when there is no real call for a Baptist State or a Jehovah Witless State?

In 1950, Taiwan had the same per capita income of Egypt: education levels were similar. Now if you compare the two, you can see how Islam prevents economic development.

I am all for the decision to build the mosque up to Rauff and his group. I do not see where building this Community Center/Mosque will further the cause of an Islamic takeover of the USA. Barring some terrorist attack, its effects are likely to be only local, and comparatively minor. A Muslim takeover of the US is not going to happen.

On a world scale, as China and India grow and prosper economically, it will become obvious that Islam will have to reform or die out, and it will eventually become like Christianity has become in Europe.
 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2010, 11:53:19 AM »
Yes Henny provided valuable insight. But her reasons for the being against the mosque weren't quite the same as yours, were they?



Kramer

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2010, 02:31:24 PM »
Yes Henny provided valuable insight. But her reasons for the being against the mosque weren't quite the same as yours, were they?




I always look at the big picture so I would say her reasons and mine are the same. That is why I said look at Europe, and the UK in particular, with regards to where they are with Islam. It's a shit hole! I never was against the Mosque because of the sacred ground argument.

In addition, the way Blacks, and minorities, are treated here is very disturbing to me. We should all be treated the same. Liberalism treats minorities like they are stupid and incapable of taking care of themselves; and whites like they have special powers over everyone else.

Kramer

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2010, 02:40:19 PM »
Henny,

I agree democracy and a bill of rights moderates things a bit.

you act like you see the big picture but clearly you don't!
You are a tool!

BT

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Re: Only Bigots oppose the Mosque....right?
« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2010, 03:06:11 PM »
Quote
you act like you see the big picture but clearly you don't! You are a tool!

let's elevate the debate a bit above name calling shall we.

But only if you are capable of doing so.
And if you are capable of debating above the level of name calling:
Why in your mind, would i be a tool?
Of whom?
and to what end?