Author Topic: Give 'em hell, Harry  (Read 4822 times)

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hnumpah

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Give 'em hell, Harry
« on: September 27, 2006, 12:10:40 AM »
I never paid much attention to him before, but he does have a point.

Intelligence report is made public
By Tabassum Zakaria and David Morgan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush blasted political opponents on Tuesday for selectively leaking from a secret intelligence assessment on global terrorism and then made public the report's main conclusion that the Iraq war had become a "cause celebre" for Islamic extremists.

Democrats had seized on leaked portions of the National Intelligence Estimate to criticize the administration's handling of the Iraq war and members of the U.S. Congress had pressed the White House to declassify the entire document.

At a news conference with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Bush said it was "a bad habit for our government to declassify every time there's a leak."

But he said he decided to make it public so "you can read it for yourself" and stop the speculation that he said was aimed at confusing the American public.

"Somebody has taken it upon themselves to leak classified information for political purposes," Bush said.

The office of intelligence director John Negroponte released a 3-1/2 page section of the April report "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States" compiled by the 16 U.S. spy agencies hours after Bush ordered it declassified.

"The Iraq conflict has become the 'cause celebre' for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of U.S. involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement," the report said.

"Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight."

Democrats, hoping to take control of Congress in November elections, pounced on media leaks about the report as evidence that Bush's Iraq policy had worsened the global terrorism threat.

Bush is intent on portraying his Republican party as stronger on national security than Democrats and better able to protect Americans.

The report said al Qaeda would continue to pose "the greatest threat" to the United States by a single group.

It said there was a large body of information indicating that activists identifying themselves as jihadists were increasing in number and geographic dispersion.

White House homeland security adviser Frances Townsend said that estimate came in part from reviewing the increasing number of hostile Internet postings.

"If this trend continues, threats to U.S. interests at home and abroad will become more diverse, leading to increasing attacks worldwide," the report said.

'IT'S NAIVE'

Bush agreed with the report's conclusion that successes against the al Qaeda leadership had led to extremists "becoming more diffuse and independent" and that they were using Iraq as a recruiting tool.

But, he strongly disagreed with critics conclusions that the Iraq war was a mistake. "I think it's naive," he said.

Bush insists his decision to invade Iraq was necessary to deal with a potential threat. But the American public has become increasingly weary of the war in which about 2,700 U.S. troops have died and sectarian violence is rampant.

Democrats said the report supported their view that the administration's Iraq policies were a failure.

"The Bush administration's failed policies in Iraq are fueling global terrorism and making America less safe," said Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

"These results are the unfortunate consequences of the administration's decision to cherry pick prewar intelligence, ignore our senior military leaders, and completely fail to plan for the post-Saddam occupation."


Townsend defended the decision not to release the whole document, saying the few key judgments held back "go directly to national security concerns" and there were fears about disclosing sources and methods.

(Additional reporting by Steve Holland)



"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Lanya

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2006, 12:22:04 AM »
But he said he decided to make it public so "you can read it for yourself" and stop the speculation that he said was aimed at confusing the American public.

"Somebody has taken it upon themselves to leak classified information for political purposes," Bush said.

**************

Confusing the American public is not what this was about, in my opinion.  Leaking it was all about informing the American public.
He'd like it if we were in the dark and afraid to utter a sound.  Well, tough.
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Amianthus

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2006, 12:25:00 AM »
Leaking it was all about informing the American public.

So, you're going on record as saying that leaking classified information is a good thing?
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sirs

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 12:43:08 AM »
So, you're going on record as saying that leaking classified information is a good thing?

Only if it hurts Bush.  If it hurts anyone trying to hurt Bush, then it's to be condemned, rule of law, and all that    ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 02:17:14 AM »
Quote
"The Bush administration's failed policies in Iraq are fueling global terrorism and making America less safe," said Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

Big statement. How exactly have our policies in Iraq made us less safe. Any examples to provide?
 

hnumpah

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2006, 11:58:58 AM »
Quote
Big statement. How exactly have our policies in Iraq made us less safe. Any examples to provide?

You  might read the declassified parts of the NIE. The ones that mention we have provided a terrorist training ground in Iraq, given folks cause to join terrorist groups, little things like that.

Can you give any examples how it has made us more safe?
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

The_Professor

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2006, 01:05:18 PM »
It is, in a way, irrelevant what the report says. The first crucial issue is why releasing a classififed document does not lead to incarceration. Discussion has and will follow since it HAS BEEN released.

BT

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2006, 01:08:49 PM »
The statement was made that our excursion in Iraq has made us less safe. You have given examples of activities that have made Iraqi's and US combatants less safe.

My question still stands.

How has our excursion made citizens in Jacksonville less safe?
.


The_Professor

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2006, 01:12:18 PM »
and how can it be determined that we actually live in a less safe place because of out Iraqi incursion? what metrics can be proferred? It is unclear to me, at least, that this can be proved.

hnumpah

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2006, 02:58:07 PM »
Quote
The statement was made that our excursion in Iraq has made us less safe. You have given examples of activities that have made Iraqi's and US combatants less safe.

My question still stands.

How has our excursion made citizens in Jacksonville less safe?

How safe are you going to be when those who are fighting us in Iraq now start making it to the States later on? Not if; when. By then they will be battle hardened, experienced in making homemade explosive devices, experienced in urban warfare. Or what of the groups made up of Americans we are already finding here in the US who want to take up the cause of the Jihadists, who probably would have and could have, if they had not run into an undercover FBI agent while trying to make contact with someone who could give them support, training and weapons? We stopped one group - how many others are out there that we don't know about?

I saw in this morning's paper that Al Qaeda is publicly recruiting anyone with experience with chemical, biological or nuclear weapons for their war against us.

Now, my question still stands - how has our invasion of Iraq made us more safe?
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2006, 11:21:51 PM »
In the estimation of Al Queda there are 4000 less Jahadis willing to travel and fight because of Iraq.

hnumpah

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2006, 12:01:32 AM »
Quote
In the estimation of Al Queda there are 4000 less Jahadis willing to travel and fight because of Iraq.

How  many have joined to replace them?
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2006, 12:09:19 AM »
3998

A net improvement in our safety of two Jahadists.

Of course all 7998 of these guysd are going to die in Iraq a net improvement to American Safety of 7998 Jahadists.

BT

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2006, 12:22:21 AM »
Quote
How safe are you going to be when those who are fighting us in Iraq now start making it to the States later on? Not if; when.

We seem to be having a timeline problem once again.

The statement said the Iraq excursion made us less safe. No qualifiers. Just a repetition of the mantra as if it were fact.

 And i don't see factual evidense to back that claim.

Safety is relative.

I am at a greater risk of a drunk driver crossing the center line than i am a jihadist on a mission.




Michael Tee

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Re: Give 'em hell, Harry
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2006, 12:41:37 AM »
<<In the estimation of Al Queda there are 4000 less Jahadis willing to travel and fight because of Iraq.>>

These are jihadis killed in Iraq who won't be coming to America because they're dead or jihadis tied down in Iraq and too busy over there to come over here?