Author Topic: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'  (Read 11005 times)

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sirs

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2010, 04:57:45 AM »
Quote
Since Judges are supposed to judge the law as is.  Show me anywhere, where the function of a Judges is to ignore law to "make a statement"

First show me where prosecutors get to determine that a felony assault should be downgraded to a misdemeanor.

It's the Prosecution that gets to decide what to charge the defendent with, based on the evidence


But the real answer to your question is that judges preside over the trial, including the entering of pleas.

And the plea has an arrangement made between the defense and the prosecution.  Outside of gross misconduct or incompotence, and your lack of providing the pertinent legal mandates by a Judge, a Judge is not there to "make a statement"


Quote
Quote from: BT on October 08, 2010, 10:58:04 PM
Half the time i just mouse over links to see where the news came from. I don't always follow the link unless i am looking for links inside the original article.

And...........?

And your practice of changing the text to articles is new behavior as far as i know. I guess i will have to start checking your links, as the trustworthiness of your postings is now suspect.

My "practice" is nothing more than highlighting precisely what you demonstrated.  You're just sore that you helped prove my point.  By all means though, read the links.  Doing so will demonstrate how there's no dishonesty associated with them or me

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2010, 10:45:37 AM »
The ultimate verdict was fair: the proposed one was not.

I am not paying attention to you. You always claim to be right, and all arguments end with you spewing incomprehensible rot, and adding some dumb insult.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2010, 12:04:23 PM »
The judge does not have to accept a plea agreement in the state of pennsylvania which is whhere your modified post to place:
PART G. Plea Procedures

Rule 590. Pleas and Plea Agreement.

 (A)  GENERALLY.

   (1)  Pleas shall be taken in open court.

   (2)  A defendant may plead not guilty, guilty, or, with the consent of the judge, nolo contendere. If the defendant refuses to plead, the judge shall enter a plea of not guilty on the defendant?s behalf.

   (3)  The judge may refuse to accept a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, and shall not accept it unless the judge determines after inquiry of the defendant that the plea is voluntarily and understandingly tendered. Such inquiry shall appear on the record.

 (B)  PLEA AGREEMENTS.

   (1)  When counsel for both sides have arrived at a plea agreement, they shall state on the record in open court, in the presence of the defendant, the terms of the agreement, unless the judge orders, for good cause shown and with the consent of the defendant, counsel for the defendant, and the attorney for the Commonwealth, that specific conditions in the agreement be placed on the record in camera and the record sealed.

   (2)  The judge shall conduct a separate inquiry of the defendant on the record to determine whether the defendant understands and voluntarily accepts the terms of the plea agreement on which the guilty plea or plea of nolo contendere is based.

 (C)  MURDER CASES.

 In cases in which the imposition of a sentence of death is not authorized, when a defendant enters a plea of guilty or nolo contendere to a charge of murder generally, the degree of guilt shall be determined by a jury unless the attorney for the Commonwealth elects to have the judge, before whom the plea was entered, alone determine the degree of guilt.

Comment

   The purpose of paragraph (A)(2) is to codify the requirement that the judge, on the record, ascertain from the defendant that the guilty plea or plea of nolo contendere is voluntarily and understandingly tendered. On the mandatory nature of this practice, see Commonwealth v. Ingram, 455 Pa. 198, 316 A.2d 77 (1974); Commonwealth v. Campbell, 451 Pa. 198, 304 A.2d 121 (1973); Commonwealth v. Jackson, 450 Pa. 417, 299 A.2d 209 (1973).

   It is difficult to formulate a comprehensive list of questions a judge must ask of a defendant in determining whether the judge should accept the plea of guilty or a plea of nolo contendere. Court decisions may add areas to be encompassed in determining whether the defendant understands the full impact and consequences of the plea, but is nevertheless willing to enter that plea. At a minimum the judge should ask questions to elicit the following information:

    (1) Does the defendant understand the nature of the charges to which he or she is pleading guilty or nolo contendere?

    (2) Is there a factual basis for the plea?

    (3) Does the defendant understand that he or she has the right to trial by jury?

    (4) Does the defendant understand that he or she is presumed innocent until found guilty?

    (5) Is the defendant aware of the permissible range of sentences and/or fines for the offenses charged?

    (6) Is the defendant aware that the judge is not bound by the terms of any plea agreement tendered unless the judge accepts such agreement?

    (7) Does the defendant understand that the Commonwealth has a right to have a jury decide the degree of guilt if the defendant pleads guilty to murder generally?

   The Court in Commonwealth v. Willis, 471 Pa. 50, 369 A.2d 1189 (1977), and Commonwealth v. Dilbeck, 466 Pa. 543, 353 A.2d 824 (1976), mandated that, during a guilty plea colloquy, judges must elicit the information set forth in paragraphs (1) through (6) above. In 2008, the Court added paragraph (7) to the list of areas of inquiry.

   Many, though not all, of the areas to be covered by such questions are set forth in a footnote to the Court?s opinion in Commonwealth v. Martin, 455 Pa. 49, 54-55, 282 A.2d 241, 244-245 (1971), in which the colloquy conducted by the trial judge is cited with approval. See also Commonwealth v. Minor, 467 Pa. 230, 356 A.2d 346 (1976), and Commonwealth v. Ingram, 455 Pa. 198, 316 A.2d 77 (1974). As to the requirement that the judge ascertain that there is a factual basis for the plea, see Commonwealth v. Maddox, 450 Pa. 406, 300 A.2d 503 (1973) and Commonwealth v. Jackson, 450 Pa. 417, 299 A.2d 209 (1973).

   It is advisable that the judge conduct the examination of the defendant. However, paragraph (A) does not prevent defense counsel or the attorney for the Commonwealth from conducting part or all of the examination of the defendant, as permitted by the judge. In addition, nothing in the rule would preclude the use of a written colloquy that is read, completed, signed by the defendant, and made part of the record of the plea proceedings. This written colloquy would have to be supplemented by some on-the-record oral examination. Its use would not, of course, change any other requirements of law, including these rules, regarding the prerequisites of a valid guilty plea or plea of nolo contendere.

   The ??terms?? of the plea agreement, referred to in paragraph (B)(1), frequently involve the attorney for the Commonwealth?in exchange for the defendant?s plea of guilty or nolo contendere, and perhaps for the defendant?s promise to cooperate with law enforcement officials?promising concessions such as a reduction of a charge to a less serious offense, the dropping of one or more additional charges, a recommendation of a lenient sentence, or a combination of these. In any event, paragraph (B) is intended to insure that all terms of the agreement are openly acknowledged for the judge?s assessment. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Wilkins, 442 Pa. 542, 277 A.2d 341 (1971).

   The l995 amendment deleting former paragraph (B)(1) eliminates the absolute prohibition against any judicial involvement in plea discussions in order to align the rule with the realities of current practice. For example, the rule now permits a judge to inquire of defense counsel and the attorney for the Commonwealth whether there has been any discussion of a plea agreement, or to give counsel, when requested, a reasonable period of time to conduct such a discussion. Nothing in this rule, however, is intended to permit a judge to suggest to a defendant, defense counsel, or the attorney for the Commonwealth, that a plea agreement should be negotiated or accepted.

   Under paragraph (B)(1), upon request and with the consent of the parties, a judge may, as permitted by law, order that the specific conditions of a plea agreement be placed on the record in camera and that portion of the record sealed. Such a procedure does not in any way eliminate the obligation of the attorney for the Commonwealth to comply in a timely manner with Rule 573 and the constitutional mandates of Brady v. Maryland, 373 U. S. 83 (1963), and its progeny. Similarly, the attorney for the Commonwealth is responsible for notifying the cooperating defendant that the specific conditions to which the defendant agreed will be disclosed to third parties within a specified time period, and should afford the cooperating defendant an opportunity to object to the unsealing of the record or to any other form of disclosure.

   When a guilty plea, or plea of nolo contendere, includes a plea agreement, the 1995 amendment to paragraph (B)(2) requires that the judge conduct a separate inquiry on the record to determine that the defendant understands and accepts the terms of the plea agreement. See Commonwealth v. Porreca, 595 A.2d 23 (Pa. 1991).

   Former paragraph (B)(3) was deleted in 1995 for two reasons. The first sentence merely reiterated an earlier provision in the rule. See paragraph (A)(3). The second sentence concerning the withdrawal of a guilty plea was deleted to eliminate the confusion being generated when that provision was read in conjunction with Rule 591. As provided in Rule 591, it is a matter of judicial discretion and case law whether to permit or direct a guilty plea or plea of nolo contendere to be withdrawn. See also Commonwealth v. Porreca, 595 A.2d 23 (Pa. 1991) (the terms of a plea agreement may determine a defendant?s right to withdraw a guilty plea).

   For the procedures governing the withdrawal of a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, see Rule 591.

   Paragraph (C) reflects a change in Pennsylvania practice, which formerly required the judge to convene a panel of three judges to determine the degree of guilt in murder cases in which the imposition of a sentence of death was not statutorily authorized.

   Official Note

   Rule 319 (a) adopted June 30, 1964, effective January 1, 1965; amended November 18, 1968, effective February 3, 1969; paragraph (b) adopted and title of rule amended October 3, 1972, effective 30 days hence; specific areas of inquiry in Comment deleted in 1972 amendment, reinstated in revised form March 28, 1973, effective immediately; amended June 29, 1977 and November 22, 1977, effective as to cases in which the indictment or information is filed on or after January 1, 1978; paragraph (c) added and Comment revised May 22, 1978, effective July 1, 1978; Comment revised November 9, 1984, effective January 2, 1985; amended December 22, 1995, effective July 1, 1996; amended July 15, 1999, effective January 1, 2000; renumbered Rule 590 and Comment revised March 1, 2000, effective April 1, 2001.

   Committee Explanatory Reports:

   Final Report explaining the December 22, 1995 amendments published with the Court?s Order at 26 Pa.B. 8 (January 6, 1996).

   Final Report explaining the July 15, 1999 changes concerning references to nolo contendere pleas and cross-referencing Rule 320 published with the Court?s Order at 29 Pa.B. 4057 (July 31, 1999).

   Final Report explaining the March 1, 2000 reorganization and renumbering of the rules published with the Court?s Order at 30 Pa.B. 1477 (March 18, 2000).

Source

   The provisions of this Rule 590 amended September 18, 2008, effective November 1, 2008, 38 Pa.B. 5429. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (318661) to (318662) and (303693) to (303694).


http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter5/s590.html

Kramer

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2010, 12:08:09 PM »
The ultimate verdict was fair: the proposed one was not.

I am not paying attention to you. You always claim to be right, and all arguments end with you spewing incomprehensible rot, and adding some dumb insult.


Were you looking the mirror (at yourself) when you wrote this?

sirs

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2010, 01:57:15 PM »
The judge does not have to accept a plea agreement in the state of pennsylvania which is whhere your modified post to place

I never said he had to.  If you were paying attention, if the Judge noted gross incompotence or injustice, he could absolutely throw it out.  Minus such, the Judge has no other reason not to accept a plea deal.   It was nice of you to provide the laundry list of definitions and paramenters by which a plea arrangement is derived.  None of them however, unless I missed it, and you wish to highlight it specifically, provide the Judge a platform to disregard a perfectly rational plea arrangement to "make a statement"

Validated by the Judge recusing himself, with another judge stepping in, who indeed accepted the plea

So, are you argueing for the sake of.....arguing?



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2010, 05:14:44 PM »
The judge can reject the plea because he feels like it.

This judge recused himself because he couched his nonacceptance in racially charged rhetoric.


I realize the distinction is subtle, perhaps that is why you missed it.


sirs

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2010, 05:54:22 PM »
The judge can reject the plea because he feels like it.

Ahh, that makes things so much better.  Skip law, let's go with feelings      ::)


This judge recused himself because he couched his nonacceptance in racially charged rhetoric.

Regardless, he removed himself based on inappropriate racially motivated judicial conduct.  A different judge came in and conducted himself like a judge.  I realize the distinction is subtle, perhaps that is why you missed it.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2010, 06:16:00 PM »
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Ahh, that makes things so much better.  Skip law, let's go with feelings

It has nothing to do with feelings. If the Judge suspected that the prosecutors office was favoring one group over another, based on race, creed, gender or nation of origin, he is within his rights to not accept the plea bargain. And that action is well within the law, in fact it is enshrined in the constitution.


Plane

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2010, 06:47:33 PM »
   In any case in which the defendant is a member of a race , any prosicutor or Judge who is a member of a race ,whether the same one or a diffrent one ,should recuse himself.  How elese can accusations of favoritism or negative bias be avoided?

BT

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2010, 07:02:01 PM »
   In any case in which the defendant is a member of a race , any prosicutor or Judge who is a member of a race ,whether the same one or a diffrent one ,should recuse himself.  How elese can accusations of favoritism or negative bias be avoided?

That would hold true if was suspected that a prosecutor of judge showed a pattern of discrimination.

That is what the PA judged said he suspected.

But to assume because as a white guy if i stand before a white judge i will get a better deal is prejudicial in itself.


sirs

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2010, 07:07:36 PM »
Quote
Ahh, that makes things so much better.  Skip law, let's go with feelings

It has nothing to do with feelings.

You just said so.  Lemme quote it again.....The judge can reject the plea because he feels like it.

Outside of gross incompotence or injustice, the judge is not to by his "gut".  Because he "can" doesn't make it right, and in this case, we at least have a recusal, because of such


If the Judge suspected that the prosecutors office was favoring one group over another, based on race, creed, gender or nation of origin, he is within his rights to not accept the plea bargain.

based on ........ his feeling again??  See the problem here........yet?  I look forward to you showing the class precisely where a Judge's feelings come into play "as enshrined in the Constitution", as it relates to judicial rulings


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2010, 08:44:19 PM »
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You just said so.  Lemme quote it again.....The judge can reject the plea because he feels like it.

Absolutely. His rejection can be discretionary. He might have awoke on the wrong side of the bed for all it matters. I'm sure most judges take into consideration whether sirs might disapprove before they act according to their discretion, but never the less they have that authority.

What you aren't addressing is whether this particular judge in this particular case observed a pattern of biased plea bargaining, and whether that observation was true. Lacking that, the recusal was based on the use of intemperate language.

sirs

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2010, 08:50:27 PM »
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You just said so.  Lemme quote it again.....The judge can reject the plea because he feels like it.

Absolutely. His rejection can be discretionary. He might have awoke on the wrong side of the bed for all it matters.

Thanks again for helping to make my point     ::)



What you aren't addressing is whether this particular judge in this particular case observed a pattern of biased plea bargaining, and whether that observation was true. Lacking that, the recusal was based on the use of intemperate language.

And what you are't acknowledging, is that no such thing has been provided by this judge, to that matter.  You have accurately referenced the only thing we do have to go on....his feelings on the matter.  And that is NOT how a judge is to rule.  At least not by design, as "enshrined in our Constitution"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2010, 09:07:17 PM »
Quote
Thanks again for helping to make my point

Your point was that a judge can reject a plea at will?

Good, glad i helped you make your point.

The incident stemmed from a Jan. 16 traffic stop in the North Side by Pittsburgh police Officer Paul Abel. After Abel asked McGowan to step out of his car, the officer said he thought McGowan was going to hit him and failed to comply with commands.

He charged McGowan with aggravated assault, terroristic threats, resisting arrest, obstructing the administration of law and improperly turning without a signal. Those charges were withdrawn, and McGowan pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_702927.html


sirs

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Re: White judge rejects plea deal for 'blackie'
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2010, 09:14:44 PM »
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Thanks again for helping to make my point

Your point was that a judge can reject a plea at will?

Close....that  Judge shouldn't be making judgements based on feelings.  Especially ones that are racially motivated.  It should be based on law, and nothing more



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle