Author Topic: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes  (Read 12064 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 02:11:18 AM »
Thank you, Plane.

There are a LOT of Mormons in my home town, since Joseph Smith was once held prisoner in the town jail and the LDS built a shrine around it. There are a lot of Reformed LDS people there as well.

I don't have a lot of reactionary Republican friends.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Kramer

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2010, 10:33:46 AM »
Thank you, Plane.

There are a LOT of Mormons in my home town, since Joseph Smith was once held prisoner in the town jail and the LDS built a shrine around it. There are a lot of Reformed LDS people there as well.

I don't have a lot of reactionary Republican friends.

He said he liked you. He didn't say you are a friend. I like you too and even on occasion find your writings amusing and educational. Often times you are wrong and you do get under my skin.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 12:01:35 PM »
He said he liked you. He didn't say you are a friend.

==================================
Read what I said. Jeez!

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

R.R.

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2010, 12:15:50 PM »
Quote
There are a LOT of Mormons in my home town

But you obviously weren't friends with any of them or you would have known this.

Trying to blame some imaginary "Mormon" friends for a stupid comment you made is fooling no one.

Plane

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2010, 08:57:11 PM »
Thank you, Plane.

There are a LOT of Mormons in my home town, since Joseph Smith was once held prisoner in the town jail and the LDS built a shrine around it. There are a lot of Reformed LDS people there as well.

I don't have a lot of reactionary Republican friends.

You are welcome, I don't really think of "freindship" as the goal of debate , more like learning oppurtunity.

So I might do well to debate civily with people I don't like at all.

That is just a theroy  , in fact I find a tenuous freindship bond forming with all the posters that I corrispond with frequently. How well can one be a friend with an on screen presence?

I am gradually finding out.

You in particular XO are a worthy sparring partner , requireing sometimes that I devote genuine thought to my argument. You are also generous with your thinking and your learning , I consider you and MT to be very usefull in this respect , deserveing my respect even when I think your arguments facile.

Plane

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2010, 09:02:53 PM »
Thank you, Plane.

There are a LOT of Mormons in my home town, since Joseph Smith was once held prisoner in the town jail and the LDS built a shrine around it. There are a lot of Reformed LDS people there as well.

I don't have a lot of reactionary Republican friends.

He said he liked you. He didn't say you are a friend. I like you too and even on occasion find your writings amusing and educational. Often times you are wrong and you do get under my skin.


   I think it is more fun if it is less personal , you and i know that the world is full of people who think as XO does , isn't it usefull to have someone handy willing to explain the thinking that we never think?

  NO offense ment but you and I are too alike to be this kind of usefull to each other.

Stray Pooch

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 11:24:45 AM »
Coffee and tea were two universally accepted social beverages during those times. Both men and women offered and drank tea or coffee as a social treat to welcome guests. So refusing to allow the flock to drink these was probably also a way of preventing too much socializing between Mormons and Gentiles, I imagine.

To borrow an expression from another faith, oy. 

The prohibition of hot drinks is part of a larger health code that prohibits tobacco and alcohol, and encourages moderation in all things.  Like most revelation that was given to Jospeh Smith this came from a question.  The specific question was from his wife, Emma, who had to clean up after the men who came for religious training in her home.  They smoked and chewed tobacco and Emma found it disgusting.  She asked Joseph if something could be done about it and Joseph inquired of the Lord.  The result was the Word of Wisdom, later included in the D&C.  It wasn't about trying to cut down on socializing with "gentiles."  Where do you think the converts came from?  The only problem the church had with non-church members was that tendency some of them had of trying to kill us.  The church did not start out isolationist.  People have a tendency to move when other people are shooting at them.  Distrust is natural when you are driven from state to state, constantly losing your money, your property and often your lives. We ended up in Salt Lake because everywhere else we went (New York, Ohio, Missouri, Illinois) the people of the church found themselves in danger.  The tendency to view the early church as being isolationist is based in part on reality, but it was hard experience, not elitist doctrines, that caused that standoffishness.

The Word of Wisdom is about improving the physical health of the Saints.  It describes a primitive sort of food pyramid, instructing us how we should eat fruits, veggies and grains as the staple of our diet and eat meats sparingly.  It tells us to keep unhealthy things out of our body which we view as the temple of the Holy Spirit.  In truth, the intake of caffeine at the level that I (and apparently Glenn Beck) do is probably something that goes against the spirit of the law.  But when we do an interview for a priesthood advancement or our semiannual interviews for a Temple Recommend,  it is the specifics of the law that are the standard.  Basically, if we are keeping the minimum standards of the law, whatever we do above and beyond that is a metter between us and the Lord.

Out of curiosity, what foods do the Seventh Day Adventists prohibit?
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 08:58:24 PM »
Out of curiosity, what foods do the Seventh Day Adventists prohibit?

Adventists are vegetarians. I believe they also refrain from tobacco and alcohol. You can Google for more.

Here is why Mormons were unwelcome in NW Missouri according to Missourians:

In 1812, there was a huge earthquake in SE Missouri, the area we Missourians call the Bootheel. The town of New Madrid was destroyed, the Mississippi was out of banks for months,and many farms were ruined. The Territorial government told those who had lost their farms that they could move to NW Missouri, where the Indians had recently evacuated. So a lot of settlers went to what are now Jackson and Clay Counties and settled. Because they were a contentious bunch, the followers of Andrew Jackson settled in Jackson County and named the county seat Independence. The settlers who were Whigs settled in Clay County and named it after Henry Clay, and their county seat Liberty. They were mostly illiterate, and staked off the land and settled in, any not feeling any need to register anything. Everyone knew everyone, and everyone was armed and dangerous, as hunting game was a major way of getting food for the table.

 A decade and change later, the Mormons came along. In 1831, Joseph Smith declared that NW Missouri was the new Promised Land, and of course, he did not mention that it was promised to the settled squatters who were already there: he meant that it had been promised to the Mormons, who were largely literate and went to the courthouse and registered their claims.

Many of their claims were to land inhabited by the squatter refugees from the New Madrid Flood. They did not accept that God wanted them to be driven off by a bunch of smartypants antislavery Mormons. When a Mormon popped in to ask some farmer for the hand of his daughter to be his second, third, fourth or fifth wife, that was was ill received. Mormons hunted and depleted the game. The lifestyle that the settlers were accustomed to was threatened.

What a settler did when a Mormon tried to drive him off his land was the very same thing that happened when some Indian staged a raid: he took out his gun and started plugging away. Eventually they decided to give the Mormons their own county, Caldwell County. But the Mormons kept getting new converts and spilled over the borders of their "reservation". Mormons were singularly unpopular and became so unwelcome that a man named Lilburn Boggs was elected in 1836 on the platform that the Mormons should be expelled from the state,and those who refused to leave could be shot on sight. It became legal to shoot Mormons, and the Mormons, not wishing to be shot, lit out for Illinois.

Joseph Smith preached that Jesus was going to return to a specific spot North of Clay County. He has yet to make an appearance. In 1983, I think oit was, my father, who was Recorder of Deeds of Clay County as well as President of the county historical society, got the state to allow the Mormons to put up a roadside marker at Adam-ondi-Ahman, in Daviss County, supposedly the site of the Garden of Eden and the spot Jesus is supposed to appear at whenever he gets around for it. We no longer shoot Mormons -- not just the Reorganized LDS buy Salt Lake Mormons -- in Missouri. In return, Mormons no longer try to register lands on which squatters have settled, being as there are no squatters left, and Mormons no longer try to marry local girls to be their second, third or umpteenth wives.

It is hard to argue that chewing tobacco is a rather nauseating habit, especially when you include the habit of spitting tobacco juice on the floor.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

R.R.

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2010, 11:40:06 PM »
Link?

Kramer

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2010, 11:46:25 PM »
Link?

It was interesting reading. I tend to think he pulled out of his memory banks (learned during youth) after reading historical stuff his father had stashed away.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2010, 01:42:53 PM »
Here is a link about the Mormon War in Missouri:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp

I assume you do not need a link to prove that spitting tobacco juice on the floor is disgusting.

When I lived in West Virginia, there was a lot of spitting going on. The Mayor of Buckhannon, WV ran a service station, and one needed to go into the station to pay him. He was a huge hulking guy with about three teeth and always had a very large tin can to spit in. Often it appeared to be at least half full, In front of him was his Mail Pouch.

Fancy spittoons seem to be something that a body just cannot buy in a store anymore. Used to be they were rather elegant and made of shiny brass. I recall there were a couple of spittoons in Collier Boggess's Hardware Store on the town square when I was a kid.

The official name of the Store was SP Boggess and Sons. Collier was the older son, Harry was the younger, and they had a fight in the 1930's and were not on speaking terms. SP stood for Sterling Price Boggess, as the founder was named after the "Gray Ghost of the Confederacy", Gen Sterling Price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Price


Price was a local boy, born in VA, who defended the Mormons after the surrendered in 1838, served in the Mexican-American War, and joined the Confederacy even though he originally opposed secession. He took some of his troops down to Mexico to try to serve Emperor Maximilian, but failed to do so, as Max was out of funds. He tried to start a colony in Veracruz, but it flopped.
He was the least barbarous of the Confederate Missourians. Quantrill was easily the most barbarous.

When Collier Boggess died at the age of 92, there was merchandise dating from the 1800's in the basement of the store. It was turned into a fancy boutique and restaurant.

http://localhistory.kclibrary.org/cdm4/print.php?CISOROOT=/Mrs&CISOPTR=712
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

R.R.

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2010, 09:31:06 PM »
Huh. I didn't originally think you cut and pasted this information. I was just breaking your balls. Now I am surprised that you actually did cut and paste it. At least you provided documentary evidence for your claims. That is the first time I'm aware of that you did that. Congratulations.

Kramer

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2010, 09:37:39 PM »
Huh. I didn't originally think you cut and pasted this information. I was just breaking your balls. Now I am surprised that you actually did cut and paste it. At least you provided documentary evidence for your claims. That is the first time I'm aware of that you did that. Congratulations.

YEAH I GUESS i GAVE HIM WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2010, 11:33:48 PM »
Now I am surprised that you actually did cut and paste it. At least you provided documentary evidence for your claims. That is the first time I'm aware of that you did that. Congratulations.

====================
I didn't cut and paste most of this, I paraphrased some of it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Kramer

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Re: Be weary of Sugar Free substitutes
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2010, 11:50:40 PM »
Now I am surprised that you actually did cut and paste it. At least you provided documentary evidence for your claims. That is the first time I'm aware of that you did that. Congratulations.

====================
I didn't cut and paste most of this, I paraphrased some of it.

too bad you don't have a para balls