Author Topic: One More Time: Iraq, the Quandry  (Read 1352 times)

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domer

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One More Time: Iraq, the Quandry
« on: December 12, 2006, 03:20:40 PM »
Trying to get one's mind around the Iraq problem is like trying ... well, there is no ready simile. It's like trying to understand someone else's deepest troughs of torment, consistently getting slapped in the face over the effort, while facing the growing threat that others, neighbors, will be so affected by the spectacle that their own torment will unleash and roil, creating a whirlpool of chaos that not only would catch you up in the middle but would provide new energy for antagonists already devoted to your destruction.

And that doesn't even begin to approximate the situation. There are truly no good options, only "less bad" ones. The poles in the debate which should be brewing are "victory" (in a very watered-down sense compared to original ambitions) or "admit the obvious": this war is lost, the logic and dynamics of the conflict itself will dictate the outcome, and we have precious little control over it. To take a position, one first has to have answers, and there are none that are truly satisfactory, especially for an outsider, who is left to his or her basic orientation ... and speculation. Indeed, this method of forging policy from the raw materials of our psyches without hard answers might be argued to be "creating 'reality' out of hopes not facts." The unfortunate truth is that facts win out every time, though often discovered too late.

I am dismayed over the juncture where we now stand. Someone has to negotiate this mess -- we must do it -- but the present "decider" has proven himself to be singularly inept with these materials, principles and ideas. And there is no reason to expect an epiphany -- an awakening, a seeing of the light, where all disparate elements come together in sharp focus in a creative (read "best possible") solution.

_JS

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Re: One More Time: Iraq, the Quandry
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2006, 03:48:56 PM »
I tend to stick with my anology that this situation is similar to a larger and more lethal Northern Ireland (which is difficult enough to wrap one's mind around). In which case it may take years to decades for us to resolve the conflicts that tear the country of Iraq asunder.

The other potential view, though I'm not convinced it is a worthwhile view, is to consider it from a nationalistic/religious perspective and possibly view the situation like Yugoslavia. Iraq has really never been a defined nation with a long history and a proud identity - not in the sense of the modern term "nation." (Note I don't mean to detract from the very ancient history of the civilizations that have called the region home). In that sense a separate Kurdish nation, Shi'a nation, and Sunni nation would be a distinct possibility or they could be set up as separate republics within one country.

I think the time for glossing over the difficult questions has gone. Is Mosul a Kurdish city? As an example, this needs to be determined. The time for diplomatic sensitivity with such question ends, in my opinion, when it means that more people die every minute such a question (and that is only one of many) goes unanswered.
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Lanya

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Re: One More Time: Iraq, the Quandry
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2006, 04:00:15 PM »
http://toohotfortnr.blogspot.com/2006/12/i-see-darkness.html

. "As best as I can tell, there is an Iraqi identity, and a deeply felt one. It just means something different than we understand it, typically. If you are a Sunni, you believe the repository of the true Iraq exists within and reduces to a Sunni entity. If you're a Shiite, you believe the same thing about the Shiite relationship to Iraq-ness."
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

_JS

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Re: One More Time: Iraq, the Quandry
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2006, 04:15:38 PM »
Which is why I offered the caveat that I'm not convinced it is a worthwhile view. I don't believe that race and religion are best to define a nation, but if what this person says is true, then the Sunni and Shi'a in Iraq do not have the same belief in what constitutes the nation of Iraq. That wouldn't be a problem if they weren't violent over their differences.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: One More Time: Iraq, the Quandry
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 11:50:37 PM »
Which is why I offered the caveat that I'm not convinced it is a worthwhile view. I don't believe that race and religion are best to define a nation, but if what this person says is true, then the Sunni and Shi'a in Iraq do not have the same belief in what constitutes the nation of Iraq. That wouldn't be a problem if they weren't violent over their differences.

" That wouldn't be a problem if they weren't violent over their differences."

I'll agree with that , in the sense that the KKK would be no problem if all of their attacks were retorical.

But the minority that beleives that violence is appropriate is getting a lot of cash and materiel from Syria and Iran , if it was not so much to the advantage of Iran and Syria to encourage violence there would be a lot less of it.

I wonder what the KKK would be like if Mexico and Canada were replenishing them?