Author Topic: TSA --> TYJA?  (Read 10391 times)

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BT

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2010, 03:42:25 PM »
I express confidence that they'll stick to the founding principles of the Constitution, as well as the continued ability to be able to define reasonable vs not, which is part of the Constitution.  4th amendment, in particular (which means, they've still been agreeing with me despite your best efforts to claim they haven't...thus the false premice to your earlier question)

If past is prologue i think you may be disappointed in how the conservative members of Scotus vote.

The roadblocks case certainly shows that they favor the state over the individual, though that may not be your take on it, since you thought their past behavior was not germane to the current topic.

sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #121 on: November 30, 2010, 04:14:48 PM »
You can continue to press the false premice, all you want.  If/when the TSA tactics fine their way to SCOTUS desks, then we'll see which one of us is correct in how they define reasonable, vs not
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #122 on: November 30, 2010, 04:23:13 PM »
Quote
You can continue to press the false premice, all you want.

How gracious of you.


Why is my premise false?


sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #123 on: November 30, 2010, 04:40:18 PM »
Spinning the notion that the conservative justices are siding with states vs individual liberty, specifically as it related to the DUI stops.  They merely have a solid grasp of the Constitution's clear reference to unreasonable, which the founders did place.  Nothing "living" about it.

And it all comes back to our apparent huge difference in how we define reasonable and not.  I'm siding with the Conservative justices currently.  They remain in agreement with me and vice-versa.  If the TSA tactics ever reach their desks, then we'll see if my position with them is validated.

When that happens, you may delete away my posts of such, being that you're the boss
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #124 on: November 30, 2010, 04:49:42 PM »
the Supreme Court Justices will side with protecting the
public from an airline disaster that causes great loss of life
submit to a body scanner or get your ass in a car and drive!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #125 on: November 30, 2010, 04:56:54 PM »
We shall see.  Ball in their hopefully soon court
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #126 on: November 30, 2010, 05:07:11 PM »
Quote
Spinning the notion that the conservative justices are siding with states vs individual liberty, specifically as it related to the DUI stops.

That is exactly what they did and specifically said that the benefit towards the common good outweighed the inconveniences of lessened personal liberty by abridging the sanctity of the fourth. It's all their in the decision they handed down.

I'm not sure how you could characterize their decision differently.


sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2010, 05:08:56 PM »
No, what they did was accurately grasp the definition of reasonable vs not.  I don't see how you could ignore that, but I understand the need for the spin
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #128 on: November 30, 2010, 05:24:18 PM »
No, what they did was accurately grasp the definition of reasonable vs not.  I don't see how you could ignore that, but I understand the need for the spin

Except the case wasn't about reasonable vs unreasonable.

The Michigan Supreme Court had found sobriety roadblocks to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment. However, by a 6-3 decision in Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz (1990), the United States Supreme Court found properly conducted sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional. While acknowledging that such checkpoints infringed on a constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement.

Dissenting justices argued that the Constitution doesn?t provide exceptions. "That stopping every car might make it easier to prevent drunken driving...is an insufficient justification for abandoning the requirement of individualized suspicion", dissenting Justice Brennan insisted.

Chief Justice Rehnquist argued that an exception was justified because sobriety roadblocks were effective and necessary. On the other hand, dissenting Justice Stevens countered that "the findings of the trial court, based on an extensive record and affirmed by the Michigan Court of Appeals, indicate that the net effect of sobriety checkpoints on traffic safety is infinitesimal and possibly negative."

Jurisdictions that allow sobriety checkpoints often carve out specific exceptions to their normal civil protections, in order to allow sobriety checkpoints. Although the U.S. Supreme Court has found sobriety checkpoints to be constitutionally permissible, ten states have found that sobriety roadblocks violate their own state constitutions or have outlawed them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_checkpoint#Legality_in_the_United_States



sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #129 on: November 30, 2010, 05:37:46 PM »
No, you're arguing the Plaintiff's case.  It was determined reasonable, albeit a smallish infringement on the 4th.  

Minus any fire, you think they'd rule that people have a consitutional right to yell fire in a crowded theater, without any legal repercussions?  A Smallish infringement there, but undestandible, given the potential for massive harm to others.  But cudos on the effort.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 06:24:51 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #130 on: November 30, 2010, 05:47:35 PM »
people need to get a grip
people all the time go in for surgery...elective and non-elective
many times the surgeon is not their regular doctor
they probably have never met the surgery staff, nurses, anesthesiologist, ect...
and they get naked to have the surgery
basically they are naked around a bunch of strangers
same thing when you go to a new doctor
this basic "stranger" has a finger up your.......
holds onto your....and tells you to cough
but God forbid walking thru a full body scanner fully clothed for like
60 seconds thats not nearly as invasive that helps prevent a national tragedy!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2010, 06:18:43 PM »
All those examples of "nakeness" Cu4 are at the option of the person involved.  And they are specific in that its only involving themselves, i.e their personal health.

Now you're spinning in trying to rationalize unreasonable into reasonable.  Let's hope there's a case that gets to SCOTUS soon, to put this issue to rest 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #132 on: November 30, 2010, 06:49:23 PM »
"All those examples of "nakeness" Cu4 are at the option of the person involved"

And so is flying at the option of the person involved.

And in fact at the airport you dont actually have to get naked
in front of multiple strangers and it is only for a few seconds
that you are not naked vs an extended period nude in front of
really complete strangers while you not even conscious!

Again...get a grip...and look at the big picture...cost vs gain!

"And they are specific in that its only involving themselves, i.e their personal health"

And so is deciding to fly....it involves themselves...i.e. their decision on how to travel
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #133 on: November 30, 2010, 06:52:21 PM »
You're spinning, but making great treadmarks.  Folks are being MADE to endure the nakedness at airports, NOT for their own well being, but to make OTHERS feel safer.  Your rights end when they start infringing on mine....so says the Constitution
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TSA --> TYJA?
« Reply #134 on: November 30, 2010, 06:55:59 PM »
Folks are being MADE to endure the nakedness at airports,

No they are not, they can choose many other ways to travel

NOT for their own well being, but to make OTHERS feel safer.  

It is for my own well being to not get blown up at 33,000 feet.

Your rights end when they start infringing on mine....so says the Constitution

Exactly you can not impose danger on my flight by choosing to fly and then
refusing to comply with the standard safety measures. You demanding that
my flight be more dangerous is a violation of my rights.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987