A Dangerous Gambit

[domer]

I do not take lightly Ahmadinejad's Holocaust "conference" -- more properly "rally" or "recruiting ground." To deny the Holocaust flatly denies the truth itself and so large a lesson from Western history as to be poised as a mortal blow to that itself. How can international relations proceed in an atmosphere in which the truth is the province of any yahoo with the breath to articulate a view? Sure, everyone has his or her voice and the right to express it, at least here, but that does not entitle them to demand respect in return. That has to be earned through messages that ring true and wise. Ahmadinejad wants to scuttle that "convention," that immemorial fact about the world. And he wants to do so for petty political gain: to once again use the Jews as a stepping stone to personal and national ambitions born, necessarily in this context, of a puerile urge to be "top dog," the leader of the pack, at least in the Muslim world and preferably beyond. But alas, failure is Ahmadinejad's fate, unless he comes up with a better and benign schtick.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Back in the days of the Shah, the US sent top-of-the-line jet fighters to Iran. Iran paid through the nose for these.

No entirely Iranian crew , however, was allowed to pilot these: there was always a US or an ISRAELI pilot in the cockpit. This was seen quite rightfully as an insult to Iranian pride.

Ahmedinejad could actually give a sh*t about whether the Holocaust ever happened. Were there 5,999,999 Jews killed? 6,000,001?  3,000,000?  9,000,000? The fact is that the vast majority of the Jews and all of those who were adults when WWII began are dead now.


What this guy is doing is rattling the chains of ther Israelis and the Americans and even the Europeans. To his fellow Iranians, the message is "We are Iranians, Persians, and have nothing in our history to apologize for. If there was a Holocaust, it was not caused by Iranians, a peaceful people who have not started a war for a thousand years. Outrages done to the Jews are logically not a justification for robbing, torturing, discriminating against and starving our Palestinian brothers."

Iran seeks to prevent an attack by the US, who clearly has plans, some have said nuclear plans, for attacking Iran. Ahmedinejad is not crazy: his various campaigns are designed to unite Iran against a possible attack and/or invasion bu either the US or the Israeli (who would do this by proxy, as they attacked Lebanon recently), and to convince the US about what a really bad idea this would be.

The fact that Israel has been exceedingly unjust with the Arabs of the WB and Gaza is one thing that all Iranians (Persians, Azeris, Arabs, Turkmen and Balushis agree on. Think of this as the Republicans rallying against homosexual marriages and flagburning.

Basically, there is much truth to the assertion that a "two-state solution" would be very much like the Boer proposal of a prosperous White Republic of South Africa and a weak group of "native Homelands". The basic difference here is mainly that the Israelis are a majority for the moment in what is now Israel, and the Boers were a minority in the RSA.

[BT]

the Israeli (who would do this by proxy, as they attacked Lebanon recently), and to convince the US about what a really bad idea this would be.

You have a skewed view of current events. How was it that Israel tricked Hezbollah intto firing the missiles at arab israeli civilians and kidnapping te soldiers?

[Plane]

How long have Persian Shiites and Palestinian Suni been brothers ?


Ahmedinejad claims that as he spoke at the podium of the UN he began to glow with heavenly brilliance and held the hall in thrall .


You say he is not crazy , I don't know why you make this assumption.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Ahmedinejad claims that as he spoke at the podium of the UN he began to glow with heavenly brilliance and held the hall in thrall .


You say he is not crazy , I don't know why you make this assumption.
===================================================
Because it's true, duh.

All you know about what he said is what has been translated by Israelis and others who seek to convince you that he is crazy.

They are better at this than you are at sorting out bullshit.

Americans always are easy to persuade that their enemies are insane: Hitler, Tojo, Saddam, Ho Chi Minh, Mao... it goes on and on and on.

The fact is that Iran has not started a war  for centuries. Iran had nothing to do, even remotely, with the Holocaust, and Iraq did not start the Civil War in Iraq.

Chavez said that Juniorbush left a sulfuric odor like Satan in the UN. It got quite a few laughs.
It wasn't intended to be realistic, as all but the most moronic know. Venezuelans have a more similar oratorical tradition with Americans than Iranians.

[Plane]

Can you point me to a sane rendering of Ahmedinejad's speeches?

[Amianthus]

No entirely Iranian crew , however, was allowed to pilot these: there was always a US or an ISRAELI pilot in the cockpit. This was seen quite rightfully as an insult to Iranian pride.

You got a source for this? I can find lots of information that we trained their pilots, but I find nothing about US or Israeli pilots being stationed in Iran. Iran had 5,000 fighter pilots under the Shah and only 450 fighters. Your claim does not sound reasonable. Also, over half their fighters were single seat F-5s. How did we put a second pilot in those?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The source was an Iranian friend, who had a relative in the Shah's AF.
The long range planes were the ones that were required to have a two-man crew, he said.

The Iranian Armed Forces under the Shah were forced to work with the Israelis. Most of them did not favor doing this, because they sympathized with the Palestinians.

Israel is correctly seen as a colony imposed on the countries of the Middle East against their will.

Ahmedinejahad is a shameless rabble-rouser, but he seems to know how to create a majority coalition within Iran.

As we speak, the US has operatives on the ground in Iran, trying to provoke civil strife among the minorities.

[Amianthus]

The source was an Iranian friend, who had a relative in the Shah's AF.
The long range planes were the ones that were required to have a two-man crew, he said.

Well, I've read sources online, written by Iranian pilots, that mention nothing about this supposed requirement.

And, as I pointed out, most of their fighter aircraft could only seat one person.

[Plane]

The F-4 had two seats , but I never heard of requireing an American be onboard .

Can we check this somewhere?

[Amianthus]

The F-4 had two seats , but I never heard of requireing an American be onboard .

Yeah, they had a mix of F-4, F-5, and F-14. The F-14 is also a two seater. However, the majority of their fighters under the Shah were F-5s.

Can we check this somewhere?

I've tried. That's why I asked XO for a source.

[Xavier_Onassis]

What are these Iranians doing?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061217/ts_nm/iran_elections_dc_14

A source for news on Iran:

http://www.netnative.com/news/

[sirs]

[Plane]

Domer,

In a "Gambit" a gamepeice is given up for the sake of gaining better position or endangering a more valuable opposing peice.


Are you saying that Iran is giveing up something?

Credibility perhaps?

What is the hoped for gain?


I think that Iran is giveing up credibility and what they hope to gain is also credibility , but in diffrent places.