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BT

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Virtual Tax?
« on: December 26, 2006, 09:09:58 PM »
Where Real Money Meets Virtual Reality, The Jury Is Still Out

By Alan Sipress
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 26, 2006; A01



Veronica Brown is a hot fashion designer, making a living off the virtual lingerie and formalwear she sells inside the online fantasy world Second Life. She expects to have earned about $60,000 this year from people who buy her digital garments to outfit their animated self-images in this fast-growing virtual community.

But Brown got an unnerving reminder last month of how tenuous her livelihood is when a rogue software program that copies animated objects appeared in Second Life. Scared that their handiwork could be cloned and sold by others, Brown and her fellow shopkeepers launched a general strike and briefly closed the electronic storefronts where they peddle digital furniture, automobiles, hairdos and other virtual wares.

"It was fear, fear of your effort being stolen,'' said Brown, 44, whose online alter ego, Simone Stern, trades under the name Simone! Design.

Brown has reopened her boutique but remains uncomfortably aware that the issue of whether she owns what she makes -- a fundamental right underpinning nearly all businesses -- is unresolved.

As virtual worlds proliferate across the Web, software designers and lawyers are straining to define property rights in this emerging digital realm. The debate over these rights extends far beyond the early computer games that pioneered virtual reality into the new frontiers of commerce.

"Courts are trying to figure out how to apply laws from real life, which we've grown accustomed to, to the new world," said Greg Lastowka, a professor at Rutgers School of Law at Camden in New Jersey. "The law is struggling to keep up."

U.S. courts have heard several cases involving virtual-world property rights but have yet to set a clear precedent clarifying whether people own the electronic goods they make, buy or accumulate in Second Life and other online landscapes. Also unclear is whether people have any claim when their real-life property is depicted online, for instance in Microsoft's new three-dimensional renderings of actual real estate.

The debate is assuming greater urgency as commerce gains pace in virtual reality. In Second Life, where nearly 2 million people have signed up to create their own characters and socialize with other digital beings, the virtual economy is booming, with total transactions in November reaching the equivalent of $20 million. Second Life's creator, Linden Lab, allows members to exchange the electronic currency they accumulate online with real U.S. dollars. Last month, people converted about $3 million at the Lindex currency market.

Second Life's economy has been surging since Linden Lab made the unusual decision three years ago to grant users intellectual property rights for what they create with the Web site's free software tools. Thousands of people have created homes and businesses on virtual land leased from the site and are peddling virtual items as varied as yachts and ice cream.

Congress has taken note and is completing a study of whether income in the virtual economy, such as from the sale of gowns that Brown makes, should be taxed by the Internal Revenue Service. The Joint Economic Committee of Congress is expected to issue its findings early next year.

"There seems to be a lack of ground rules in an area that would have explosive growth in the next decade or two," said Christopher Frenze, the committee's executive director.

Though she grew up watching her mother at the sewing machine, learning the craft with each loving stitch of the family's clothes, Brown never considered making it a career until two years ago, when she entered Second Life. Within days, she studied up on the basic software skills and began designing virtual women's apparel from her home in Indiana. "When I design," she said, "I think about how the cloth falls and the sheen silk has compared to satin." She said she now spends 70 hours a week on her trade. Starting with four original outfits, she now offers 1,200 designs and has also moved into men's fashion.

But the rogue program, called a copybot, that appeared last month in Second Life underscored the need to clarify her property rights. After the attack, Linden Lab announced efforts to ban the program and encouraged users to report abuses. Some users argued that even stronger property protections were needed.

"I'm feeling uncomfortable," Brown admitted. "I'm safe for now, but it's very tentative."

Linden Lab made cyber-history when it gave Second Life users the intellectual property rights to their creations -- similar to the copyright real-world authors have to their writings. By contrast, most Web sites offering virtual experiences have not accorded users any property rights, requiring them to accept a license agreement stating that all content belongs solely to the Web site owner.

Four years ago, several online gaming veterans tried to get around this agreement and make real money by selling game items from Dark Age of Camelot on eBay and at specialty online auctions. The items, which included weapons, armor and specialized characters, in some cases went for more than $300 each. The developers of the Camelot game blocked them. When the gaming veterans sued, claiming that they had rights to the items they acquired in the game, a federal court in California ruled against them on the grounds that the license agreement took precedence. Other recent U.S. court rulings in virtual disputes have come to similar conclusions.

But judges elsewhere have taken a different view. A Chinese player in the Korean-made online game Mir 3 claimed that his personal rights had been violated when the game's local Chinese operators deleted the magic sword he used to battle virtual villains. The operators claimed it had been illegally duplicated from an original. The player filed suit, contending that he had bought the magic sword in good faith and that it was worth about $120. A Chinese court in Xuhui district ruled against the game's operators, essentially finding that the player's property rights were paramount.

In Second Life, Linden Lab executives wanted to avoid this confusion, believing that users needed clear ownership for economic activity to thrive, recounted Cory Ondrejka, chief technical officer. Otherwise, users would have little incentive to invest.

But he stressed that this ownership did not extend to full property rights -- creators have intellectual property rights to the software patterns used in making virtual objects but no rights to the objects themselves. Under this formulation, Brown owns her designs but not the individual dresses and pieces of underwear. Nor do her customers "own" the apparel they purchase and hang in their virtual closets.

"Everything in the virtual world is intellectual property, as much as it looks like property or as much as property is a useful metaphor,'' Ondrejka said. "Copying it is not theft. It's infringement, but it's not theft.''

But Joshua Fairfield, a professor at Indiana University School of Law, said there's more to online rights than just intellectual property. He said there are legal reasons to believe that property rights to objects can exist in a virtual realm, but no U.S. court has affirmed the concept.

Earlier this month, U.S. Circuit Judge Richard A. Posner visited Second Life, appearing as a balding, bespectacled cartoon rendering of himself, and addressed a crowd of other animated characters on a range of legal issues, including property rights in virtual reality. Posner stressed that it was in Linden Lab's interest to ensure due process and other rights.

"They want people to invest in Second Life, and we know people won't invest if their rights are not reasonably secure," he told the audience, which included a giant chipmunk and several supermodels. He went on to predict the eventual emergence of an "international law of virtual worlds" similar to international maritime law.

Meanwhile, as mapping technologies rapidly improve, companies are increasingly able to transfer the real world to the online world. But are property rights any clearer in such a "real" virtual world?

Microsoft, for instance, launched an online service last month called Virtual Earth that features highly detailed three-dimensional photographic maps of American cities. Microsoft plans to make money by selling advertising billboards in this virtual depiction of urban America.

But the company's lawyers and advertising executives are still grappling with the question of whether those who own the property depicted in Microsoft's 3-D images have any control over how their depicted property is used online. For instance, does Federal Express have the right to object if an ad for its competitor DHL is posted in the parking lot at virtual FedEx Field?

"We haven't fully delineated all the guidelines for do's and don'ts,'' said Bobby Figueroa, a director of product management at Microsoft.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/25/AR2006122500635_pf.html

Plane

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2006, 03:40:35 AM »
What a great experiment!

I want to know what Brassmask thinks.

Brassmask is certainly familliar with Copyright and Intellectual property issues due to the business he is in.


But a copybot seems to be an RBE device.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2006, 09:55:52 AM »
God effing FORFEND that the creative genius of those arming and dressing virtual characters is 'stolen'.

These guys have discovered that they have a talent for doing something that is not inly useless, but useless in a nonexistent environment. Putting a ball through a hoop or hitting it with a stick is useless enough, but copyright cannot be applied to these activities.

I am all for virtual reality being a lawless place, where virtual clothing and crap can be hijacked at will.

When real workers go on strike for real money, that is somehow a bad thing. They should let the market decide. Strikes and unions should be illegal, because they stifle Free Enterprise.

Of course, the workers at the UAW did produce useful things.

But these virtual workers don't contribute one thing to the real world, and they want to be paid in real money.

I think they should get a hearty raise, but in virtual money.

What happens in virtual STAYS in virtual. What could be wrong with that?

Or is it not enough that virtual free enterprise be free in reality as well?



"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 10:30:34 AM »
What happens in virtual STAYS in virtual. What could be wrong with that?

Except that is not how things will go.

More and more real world business will start taking place in the virtual worlds. Instead of buying a nice real world business suit for a real world meeting, in the future you will buy a nice virtual suit for a virtual meeting. The real and virtual worlds will become mingled.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 11:53:15 AM »
Entertainment products have always been "useless" but worth something.

Playwrights have been getting pay for createing a virtual world for hundreds of years .


The Mona Lisa is a virtual Woman , her dress is painted on.

Plane

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2006, 12:00:12 PM »



Can virtual propertys be assessed for taxation?

I want homested exemption on my second life castle.

kimba1

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2006, 02:26:12 PM »
something about paying real money for virtual items,just bugs me.
it`s no impossible for identicle items being made separately by folks all using the same tools.
so copyright laws maybe a problem.
I`m leaning toward making the virtual world a lawless place.
also unions are good for free enterprise.
without strike and unions business will have a limited income base.
increasing worker income equals higher profit.

Plane

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2006, 02:36:33 PM »
something about paying real money for virtual items,just bugs me.
it`s no impossible for identicle items being made separately by folks all using the same tools.
so copyright laws maybe a problem.
I`m leaning toward making the virtual world a lawless place.
also unions are good for free enterprise.
without strike and unions business will have a limited income base.
increasing worker income equals higher profit.


It can be done simultainously .

Make your own version of "Second Life " with an abbreviated list of rules , no cornfeild.

See if it is as popular as the orderly versions.

kimba1

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2006, 02:46:20 PM »
you mention writers
that gives me a thought.
how about structuring it so it encourages creativity
the point of copyright laws is to not turn off writers and artist .
it`s not to protect businesses but to ensure people keep creating.
businesses never needs protection.
if one goes another will pop up.
unless it`s arthur anderson.

Brassmask

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2006, 03:44:03 PM »
Personally, anyone that pays "real world" money for "virtual world" anything is kind of stupid.  Virtual worlds should be treated as games and nothing more.

If people spend more time in virtual worlds than in the real world, that only makes the real world more controllable by those with enough power and money.

It is utterly ludicrous that people are sending their virtual persona's into virtual boutiques to buy virtual clothes.  It is simply a diversion from reality and wasted energy on the level of the energy wasted on thoughts of heaven after you're dead.

Having said that though, what people choose to waste their money on is their own business but it should be pointed out to them constantly that is EXACTLY what they are doing with it.  Imagine that people are throwing money down the drain to "dress" something that doesn't even exist when there are ACTUAL AND REAL CHILDREN starving in the world.  I thought people who fed their dogs like they were human were disgusting.  This new thing beats that hands down.

kimba1

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2006, 04:45:55 PM »
as a former dog owner
i love treating my dog once in awhile
and didn`t mind doing everything possible making him comfortable toward the end.
mark twain was right about the closeness of man and his dog.
on the matter of help the starving.
our brains are scrambled.
we`re barely able to donate money without most of it going to admin fee`s
charity is too much a business today and it`s hurting itself.

Amianthus

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2006, 06:38:15 PM »
Personally, anyone that pays "real world" money for "virtual world" anything is kind of stupid.  Virtual worlds should be treated as games and nothing more.

Except that, in the future, the virtual worlds will be where real business gets done.

People won't be commuting to work - they'll arrive virtually and interact virtually.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

kimba1

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2006, 06:58:03 PM »
but i don`t want to buy virtual clothes on top of the clothes I already bought now.
we should have unlimited choices in virtual world.
it don`t look like in the future using the default icon will fly in the virtual world.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2006, 07:17:02 PM »
I foresee someone being arrested for a using a date-rape drug in a virtual reality.
Not arrested for the virtual rape, mind you, why should there be a law against that? , but for COUNTERFEITING virtual roofies
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Lanya

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Re: Virtual Tax?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2006, 10:05:53 PM »
This whole subject makes my head hurt.

I'm suing the lady who makes virtual dresses for giving me a real headache. ;)
Mental distress! Emotional harm! Oh my...if I had a virtual husband could I sue for loss of virtual consortium if he had a virtual car accident? 
Virtual medical malpractice.  The possibilities are endless, unfortunately.     

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