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Christians4LessGvt

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The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« on: February 01, 2011, 07:15:43 PM »


The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy

Islamic group poses a clear and present danger to us in the Middle East

By Frank J. Gaffney Jr. - The Washington Times

January 31, 2011

As Egypt lurches toward the end of President Hosni Mubarak?s regime, one way or another - by ?an orderly transition to democratic rule? (as Hillary Rodham Clinton delicately puts it), through violent overthrow or simply through the demise of the ailing 82-year-old president - much is unclear. One thing that should not be is that the Muslim Brotherhood is our enemy, and whatever role it plays in Egypt?s future will be to our detriment.

Such clarity is readily available because the Brotherhood (MB or, in Arabic, Ikhwan) has told us as much. Consider, for example, the mission statement for the MB found in one of its secret documents, titled ?An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America.?

?The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ?sabotaging? its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God?s religion is made victorious over all other religions.?

As a blue-ribbon group of national security experts convened by the Center for Security Policy, Team B II noted in its new best-seller ?Shariah: The Threat to America,?the incompatibility of the Ikhwan?s agenda with our interests has been evident from its inception: ?The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928. Its express purpose was two-fold: (1) to implement Shariah worldwide, and (2) to re-establish the global Islamic State (caliphate). Therefore, al Qaeda and the MB have the same objectives. They differ only in the timing and tactics involved in realizing them.?

We also know how the Brotherhood plans to pull off our destruction. Another MB document, this one undated, is called ?Phases of the World Underground Movement Plan.? It describes a five-installment program for achieving the triumph of Shariah - together with a status report on the realization of several of the phases? goals:

Phase 1: ?Discreet and secret establishment of leadership.?

Phase 2: ?Phase of gradual appearance on the public scene and exercising and utilizing various public activities. [The MB] greatly succeeded in implementing this stage. It also succeeded in achieving a great deal of its important goals, such as infiltrating various sectors of the Government.?

Phase 3: ?Escalation phase, prior to conflict and confrontation with the rulers, through utilizing mass media. Currently in progress.?

Phase 4: ?Open public confrontation with the Government through exercising the political pressure approach. It is aggressively implementing the above-mentioned approach. Training on the use of weapons domestically and overseas in anticipation of zero-hour. It has noticeable activities in this regard.?

Phase 5: ?Seizing power to establish their Islamic Nation under which all parties and Islamic groups are united.?

If any further evidence were needed of the threat posed by the Muslim Brotherhood, consider the comments on Oct. 6 by Mohamed Badie, the Ikhwan?s virulent promoter of Shariah who was installed as its leader (Supreme Guide) last year. According to a translation provided by the indispensable Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Mr. Badie declared: ?[Today, the United States] is withdrawing from Iraq, defeated and wounded, and it is on the verge of withdrawing from Afghanistan. [All] its warplanes, missiles and modern military technology were defeated by the will of the peoples, as long as [these peoples] insisted on resistance. Its wealth will not avail it once Allah has had his say, as happened with [powerful] nations in the past. The U.S. is now experiencing the beginning of its end, and is heading towards its demise.?

Barry Rubin, one of the most astute observers of the Middle East, warned within days that this speech represented a ?declaration of war? by the Brotherhood, with it ?adopting a view almost identical to al Qaeda?s? but coming from ?a group with 100 times more activists than al Qaeda.?

At first blush, it seems incredible that the sort of clarity about the Brotherhood?s intentions that the foregoing provide seems to be eluding many in official Washington and the policy elite. On closer inspection, however, the muddle-headedness that has many describing the Ikhwan as ?nonviolent,? ?democratic? and desirable candidates for a coalition to replace Mr. Mubarak?s dictatorship is, to use an old Soviet expression, ?no accident, comrade.?

In fact, the aforementioned MB ?Explanatory Memorandum? provides a list of ?Our Organizations and the Organizations of Our Friends? that includes virtually every prominent Muslim-American organization in business at that time. What is incredible, therefore, is that many of these same Muslim Brotherhood fronts are used by the U.S. government for ?outreach? to the Muslim community and policy advice. The nation?s top intelligence official, James Clapper, has actually characterized the resulting ?dialogue with the Muslim community? as ?a source of advice, counsel and wisdom.?

As a result, one other thing should be frighteningly clear: We are having our policies toward Egypt?s succession - and the tsunami it is accelerating elsewhere in the region - influenced, shaped and probably subverted by the Muslim Brotherhood?s American operatives. If we let our enemies call the shots, there is no doubt who will wind up taking the bullet.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/31/the-muslim-brotherhood-is-the-enemy/?page=1
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 07:21:13 PM »
What do Mr's Gaffney and Rubin suggest we do about the Muslim Brotherhood?

Should we stand in the way of Egypt's lurch towards democracy? Would that counteract the Bush Doctrine?



Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 12:26:23 AM »
Look at the pictures of the demonstrators in Egypt. Note that there are a LOT of women protesting in the street. Note that they are NOT wearing any sort of scarf, hejab or head covering.
If the Muslim Brotherhood was such a pervasive influence, you would not see this at all. There would be very few women protesting, and they would all he wearing scarves at the very least.

The influence of the Muslim Brotherhood in exaggerated by Mubarak, the Israelis and their toadies, the neocons.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 01:45:45 AM »
Look at the pictures of the demonstrators in Egypt. Note that there are a LOT of women protesting in the street. Note that they are NOT wearing any sort of scarf, hejab or head covering.
If the Muslim Brotherhood was such a pervasive influence, you would not see this at all. There would be very few women protesting, and they would all he wearing scarves at the very least.

The influence of the Muslim Brotherhood in exaggerated by Mubarak, the Israelis and their toadies, the neocons.


I am having a good laugh at all of the wailing about the MB and their supposed takeover of the Arab world. And these "secret" documents (interpret as conspiracy theory) are even funnier.

I liken the MB to having the "religiosity" of the Christian Coalition. Extremely God-loving... but not so terribly extreme. (Note that I really don't care for the Christian Coalition and their influence on American politics - I also don't like their Muslim equivalent's influence on Arab politics (when it exists) - but in the sphere of "least-worst" I pick the MB over the alternatives in the region, hands down.)

What is happening in Egypt, is as they say, an organic movement. People from all walks of life are united - Muslim, Christian and other; men and women; poor, middle class, rich - all pushing to oust Mubarak. The MB couldn't pull that off - no one single group could do this.

So let's get down to the REAL issue here that is on everyone's minds and in the undertones of even the most liberal press: if the MB gains control, will the Israelis be driven into the sea?

On the Egypt end - NO. Egypt and Israel have been working together for too long and are too intertwined and interdependent. Egypt's 80 million people need American aid. Regardless of who is ruling the country, the suffering as a result of losing said aid would be a disaster. Even the jobs created by military posts (financed by the U.S.) are crucial. I do think, however, that any new government in Egypt will put pressure on Israel to return to the 1967 borders, and will use that gas pipeline as an incentive to move the issue.

If we were talking about Israel's other pal - Jordan - I would be much more worried. Take a look at Egypt; as I said above, all people are united for a common cause. This will never happen in Jordan. You have tribal Jordanians, Palestinians, Chechyns, Iraqis. Everyone is pissed about something different. Everyone wants change, but there is no unity in what is wanted. If the King of Jordan can't hold this together, the ensuing upheavel will be chaos without a clear solution and a power vacuum without any one strong, leading candidate to fill the void. And with no unity, no one will care about the overall good of Jordan and least of all Israel and how the peace treaty benefits the people in Jordan.

(And now the King has fired the PM and the Ministers and appointed a PM that he fired only a few years ago - fired in 2007 for corruption which he admitted to. And a military leader to boot, which is a pretty strong statement in light of regional events. PROBLEM! Firstly, the people in Jordan have been demanding the right to elect the PM rather than have him appointed and this nomination by the King was a slap in the face. The people are furious and only now am I concerned that the people are mad enough for something potentially serious to happen here. I hope I'm wrong.)

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 02:02:07 AM »
Quote
I am having a good laugh at all of the wailing about the MB and their supposed takeover of the Arab world. And these "secret" documents (interpret as conspiracy theory) are even funnier.

Protocols of the Elders of Zion - the sequel

Henny

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Secular and devout. Rich and poor. They marched together with one goal.
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 03:58:39 AM »
Robert Fisk: Secular and devout. Rich and poor. They marched together with one goal.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-secular-and-devout-rich-and-poor-they-marched-together-with-one-goal-2201504.html

It was a victory parade ? without the victory. They came in their hundreds of thousands, joyful, singing, praying, a great packed mass of Egypt, suburb by suburb, village by village, waiting patiently to pass through the "people's security" checkpoints, draped in the Egyptian flag of red, white and black, its governess eagle a bright gold in the sunlight. Were there a million? Perhaps. Across the country there certainly were. It was, we all agreed, the largest political demonstration in the history of Egypt, the latest heave to rid this country of its least-loved dictator. Its only flaw was that by dusk ? and who knew what the night would bring ? Hosni Mubarak was still calling himself "President" of Egypt.

Mubarak ended the day as expected, appearing on television to announce that he will hang on until the next election ? a promise that will not be accepted by the people he claims to love. The people of Egypt were originally told this was to be "the march of the million" to the Kuba Palace, Mubarak's official state pile, or to the man's own residence in Heliopolis. But so vast was the crowd that the organisers, around 24 opposition groups, decided the danger of attacks from the state security police were too great. They claimed later they had discovered a truck load of armed men close to Tahrir Square. All I could find were 30 Mubarak supporters shouting their love of Egypt outside the state radio headquarters under the guard of more than 40 soldiers.

The cries of loathing for Mubarak are becoming familiar, the posters ever more intriguing. "Neither Mubarak, nor Suleiman, and we don't need you Obama ? but we don't dislike USA," one of them announced generously. "Out ? all of you, including your slaves," announced another. I did actually find a decaying courtyard covered in rectangular sheets of white cloth where political scribes could spray-paint their own slogans for 40 pence a time. The tea-houses behind Talat Harb's statue were crammed with drinkers, discussing Egypt's new politics with the passion of one of Delacroix's orientalist paintings. You could soak this stuff up all day, revolution in the making. Or was this an uprising? Or an "explosion", as one Egyptian journalist described the demonstration to me?

There were several elements about this unprecedented political event that stood out. First was the secularism of the whole affair. Women in chadors and niqabs and scarves walked happily beside girls with long hair flowing over their shoulders, students next to imams and men with beards that would have made Bin Laden jealous. The poor in torn sandals and the rich in business suits, squeezed into this shouting mass, an amalgam of the real Egypt hitherto divided by class and regime-encouraged envy. They had done the impossible ? or so they thought ? and, in a way, they had already won their social revolution.

And then there was the absence of the "Islamism" that haunts the darkest corners of the West, encouraged ? as usual ? by America and Israel. As my mobile phone vibrated again and again, it was the same old story. Every radio anchor, every announcer, every newsroom wanted to know if the Muslim Brotherhood was behind this epic demonstration. Would the Brotherhood take over Egypt? I told the truth. It was rubbish. Why, they might get only 20 per cent at an election, 145,000 members out of a population of 80 million.

A crowd of English-speaking Egyptians crowded round me during one of the imperishable interviews and collapsed in laughter so loud that I had to bring the broadcast to an end. It made no difference, of course, when I explained on air that Israel's kindly and human Foreign Minister, Avigdor Lieberman ? who once said that "Mubarak can go to hell" ? might at last get his way, politically at least. The people were overwhelmed, giddy at the speed of events.

So was I. There I was, back on the intersection behind the Egyptian Museum where only five days ago ? it feels like five months ? I choked on tear gas as Mubarak's police thugs, the baltigi, the drug addict ex-prisoner cops, were slipped through the lines of state security policemen to beat, bludgeon and smash the heads and faces of the unarmed demonstrators, who eventually threw them all out of Tahrir Square and made it the Egyptian uprising. Back then, we heard no Western support for these brave men and women. Nor did we hear it yesterday.

Amazingly, there was little evidence of hostility towards America although, given the verbal antics of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton these past eight days, there might have well been. One almost felt sorry for Obama. Had he rallied to the kind of democracy he preached here in Cairo six months after his investiture, had he called for the departure of this third-rate dictator a few days ago, the crowds would have been carrying US as well as Egyptian flags, and Washington would have done the impossible: it would have transformed the now familiar hatred of America (Afghanistan, Iraq, the "war on terror", etc) into the more benign relationship which the US enjoyed in the balmy 1920s and 1930s and, indeed, despite its support for the creation of Israel, into the warmth that existed between Arab and American into the 1960s.

But no. All this was squandered in just seven days of weakness and cowardice in Washington ? a gutlessness so at odds with the courage of the millions of Egyptians who tried to do what we in the West always demanded of them: to turn their dust-bowl dictatorships into democracies. They supported democracy. We supported "stability", "moderation", "restraint", "firm" leadership (Saddam Hussein-lite) soft "reform" and obedient Muslims.

This failure of moral leadership in the West ? under the false fear of "Islamisation" ? may prove to be one of the greatest tragedies of the modern Middle East. Egypt is not anti-Western. It is not even particularly anti-Israeli, though this could change. But one of the blights of history will now involve a US president who held out his hand to the Islamic world and then clenched his fist when it fought a dictatorship and demanded democracy.

This tragedy may continue in the coming days as the US and Europe give their support to Mubarak's chosen successor, the chief spy and Israeli negotiator, Vice-President Omar Suleiman. He has called, as we all knew he would, for talks with "all factions" ? he even contrived to sound a bit like Obama. But everyone in Egypt knows that his administration will be another military junta which Egyptians will again be invited to trust to ensure the free and fair elections which Mubarak never gave them. Is it possible ? is it conceivable ? that Israel's favourite Egyptian is going to give these millions the freedom and democracy they demand?

Or that the army which so loyally guarded them today will give such uncritical support to that democracy when it receives $1.3bn a year from Washington? This military machine, which has not fought a war for almost 38 years, is under-trained and over-armed, with largely obsolete equipment ? though its new M1A1 tanks were on display yesterday ? and deeply embedded in the corporation of big business, hotels and housing complexes, all rewards to favourite generals by the Mubarak regime.

And what were the Americans doing? Rumour: US diplomats were on their way to Egypt to negotiate between a future President Suleiman and opposition groups. Rumour: extra Marines were being drafted into Egypt to defend the US embassy from attack. Fact: Obama finally told Mubarak to go. Fact: a further evacuation of US families from the Marriott Hotel in Cairo, escorted by Egyptian troops and cops, heading for the airport, fleeing from a people who could so easily be their friends.

Egypt in tweets

The ban on the internet in Egypt was yesterday circumvented by Google and Twitter, which launched a service to enable people caught in the unrest to post messages. The 'speak-to-tweet' system allows people to leave a voice message which is posted on Twitter. By yesterday evening more than 800 had been posted, and many of those in Arabic had been translated.

* "I am a writer and I just want to tell people in the free world who are afraid that Islamic fanatics can take over, that this will not happen in Egypt. When Egyptians enjoy real freedom, they will never let fanaticism to take over."

* "For the last 30 years, we admire the American dream which calls for freedom and democracy. So we are looking to you to support the people all around the world who are seeking freedom and democracy."

* "I am very happy to have finally a way to express how we feel here in Egypt. This is a historical moment. I wish that it will end up with the way that we all want. We all want democracy."

* "Whoever fears to climb mountains will live forever in the ditches. We don't want to live in the ditches again."

* "I'm an Egyptian and I ask the help of every human being on the face of Earth. Not only us should hold this tyrant accountable. The whole world should."

* "2 million of us at Tahrir Square and we won't leave until we hear the Hosni Mubarak is gone"

* "God will help us and be on our side. Don't be afraid, don't be afraid. We've killed the fear in our hearts."

* "Whatever happens can't be worse than if we went backwards. The road is one, we have to follow to the end. I feel like even the wind, the wind is new and the wind is different. Even the wind and the ground we walk on has changed."

Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 04:01:02 AM »
Muslim Brotherhood - - Oldest International Islamist Organization

http://terrorism.about.com/od/politicalislamterrorism/a/MuslimBrothers.htm

The Muslim Brotherhood is not on the U.S. Foreign Terrorist Organizations list. It renounced violence in the 1970s and has no active militia (although a provocative martial arts demonstration in December 2006 raised some alarm that they may be regrouping a militia.)

Nevertheless, the Muslim Brotherhood or Ikhwan Al Muslimun in Arabic, is frequently mentioned in relation to groups such as Hamas and Al Qaeda. And, although today they may be best known as the largest independent bloc in the Egyptian parliament, they are nearly always invoked as the origins for extremist visions of Islam that root today's jihadist movements.

Founded In: 1928 by Hassan Al Banna

Home Base: Egypt

Objective: The establishment of a democratic state grounded in Islamic precepts. Quoting members from the mid 1990s, Sana Abed-Kotob, wrote that:

Muslim Brother Isam Al Aryan, for example, [says] "The Brothers consider constitutional rule to be closest to Islamic rule ? We are the first to call for and apply democracy. We are devoted to it until death. Similarly, Brother Fahmi Huwaydi comments, "the Brothers support pluralism and reject democracy . . ." (from International Journal of Middle East Studies 27 (1995)).

Attitude toward Violence:The group has declared its renunciation of violence in Egypt. In the early 1940s, the group created a secret paramilitary wing known as the "secret apparatus," which operated somewhat independently of the main organization. In 1948, the group assassinated the Egyptian prime minister; group members fought in the 1948 war against Zionist forces in mandate Palestine.

Organization: The Muslim Brotherhood has gone through several incarnations. It was founded as a youth group that used education and propaganda to spread its messages. In 1939, the organization was organized as a political party. In 1942, the group created a created a militia called the "Secret Apparatus." that used terrorist tactics within Egypt. It was outlawed by the Egyptian government in 1948, recognized in 1950 as a religious group, and banned again in 1954. In 1984, it was recognized as a religious organization but it still has not been recognized as a political party (members in parliament ran as independents).

A number of groups and figures who espouse terrorist tactics were taught or influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood, such Ayman Al Zawahiri, who founded the Egyptian Islamic Jihad (in part because he wanted an organization that would make more effective use of violence in the service of jihad), and Hamas, the Palestinian group that began as a branch of the Muslim Brothers.

However, currently, as Robert Leiken and Steven Brooke point out in the March/April 2007 Foreign Affairs magazine, "jihadists loathe the Muslim Brotherhood ? for rejecting global jihad and embracing democracy."

A Powerful Social Welfare Organization: The Muslim Brotherhood has always provided social welfare to poor Egyptians, from health care to books and subsidies for university students.

The power of the Muslim Brotherhood is such that every political leader of Egypt has outlawed the group. Following a Brotherhood assassination attempt in 1954, Gamal Abd Al Nasser outlawed the group and made Egypt extremely inhospitable to members. During his presidency, which lasted until 1970, many members in Egypt were imprisoned and tortured, which shaped their worldview. Many others left for surrounding states, in the Gulf or the Levant which helped spread the group's influence. Despite their illegality as a party, Brotherhood members won 20% of political seats in 2005 parliamentary elections.

Founder: Hasan Al Banna

Hasan Al Banna was born in 1906 in the Egyptian village north of Cairo. His father, an imam (prayer leader) was trained as a religious scholar by one of the most famous Islamic reformers of the time. Islamic reformers sought to make sense of new ideas of governance, such as democracy (which was a new idea in Western Europe as well, at the time), and figure out how they were compatible with Islamic ideas of governance.

Hasan was religious from an early age, and played substantial roles while still a teenager in groups seeking to make sure people adhered to Islamic ways. He was also opposed to the Christian missionaries and British occupiers he grew up with in his town. Hasan, training to be a schoolteacher, arrived in Cairo in the early 1920s, then went on to teach Arabic in a city near the Suez Canal, Ismailiya, in 1927, where he founded the Muslim Brotherhod.

Affiliations: The Muslim Brotherhood has branches throughout the Arab/ Islamic world including Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the Palestinian territories, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya and Sudan as well as Eurasia and Africa. There are Muslim Brotherhood supporters in the United States.

Plane

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 04:21:24 AM »
Once the snowball gets rolling there is no controlling , its path depends on what condition the snow is in and how steep the hill.

The US isn't defending Mubarak and is getting some criticism for abandonment of a pal. The US isn't buying Mubarak a plane ticket or a poison pill and is getting criticised for not helping progress to progress.

I don't expect pronouncements from Washington to cause much harm nor help now , the avalanche is flowing and the momentum of it will overwhelm all intervention until it runs its full course.

If the result is a potential friend for the US we will be fortunate, perhaps we can make a new deal with the new Regime.

If the result is a democratic regime that is really responsive to the people this requires more than just good fortune , Egyptions who really care will have to carry the project.The Egyption constitution which has been amended to favor the regime will need fixing, the Egyption Army will have to act to deserve the respect that it has been given.


Effective US reactions will happen after the dust is settleing.

Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 06:32:19 AM »
Once the snowball gets rolling there is no controlling , its path depends on what condition the snow is in and how steep the hill.

The US isn't defending Mubarak and is getting some criticism for abandonment of a pal. The US isn't buying Mubarak a plane ticket or a poison pill and is getting criticised for not helping progress to progress.

I don't expect pronouncements from Washington to cause much harm nor help now , the avalanche is flowing and the momentum of it will overwhelm all intervention until it runs its full course.

If the result is a potential friend for the US we will be fortunate, perhaps we can make a new deal with the new Regime.

If the result is a democratic regime that is really responsive to the people this requires more than just good fortune , Egyptions who really care will have to carry the project.The Egyption constitution which has been amended to favor the regime will need fixing, the Egyption Army will have to act to deserve the respect that it has been given.


Effective US reactions will happen after the dust is settleing.

One important thing that I think many forget when they are demanding democratic reforms in countries like Egypt is that our own democratic system did not come overnight, nor did it come without a price.

Further, just having democratic elections isn't enough - it's what happens after the elections; as you said, amending the constitution, etc. Making sure that no one man (or woman) has so much power that they become a dictator as well.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 10:06:31 AM »
I am having a good laugh at all of the wailing about the MB and their supposed takeover of the Arab world.

Who said that?
The Muslim Brotherhood are one small piece of a complicated puzzle.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 10:12:48 AM »
What do Mr's Gaffney and Rubin suggest we do about the Muslim Brotherhood?

I can't speak for them....
What do you normally do with people that want to destroy you?

Should we stand in the way of Egypt's lurch towards democracy?

No...who said that?
The Muslim Brotherhood are not the majority in Egypt.
But IslamoNazis dont care about democratic majorities.

would that counteract the Bush Doctrine?

And what is that Sarah?

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 11:17:11 AM »
The Muslim Brotherhood is first and foremost anticolonialist, which means that it resents US and UK intrusion in Egypt's affairs. It is NOT an advocate for any sort of Unified Muslim Caliphate. It is NOT Al Qaeda. It is mostly a group of old geezers sitting around thinking up how Egypt might get by without all that US aid, I imagine.

Egypt was a colony of England, then an independent nation that was run by the Brits clandestinely through a disinterested and incompetent king (Farouk), who was deposed by Nasser. Mubarak is an extension of Nasser, probably the last of a series of three military demogogues (Sadat being the one in the middle). Sadat was very popular in the West, more so than either Nasser or Mubarak, but he was basically a dick just like Nasser and Mubarak at home, an elitist who could have cared less about the plight of Egypt's huge peasant caste who still are mired in the XIV Century.

It would be helpful if the new Egyptian government would serve to pressure Israel (perhaps by using those tunnels under the border) to cease the colonization of Palestinian areas in the WB and East Jerusalem. The Palestinian situation needs a settlement. 

And that Debkafiles post was a total joke: all those clowns do is pread bogus panic, panic panic, and you eat it up as fast as they can dish it out.
 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 02:08:47 PM »
One important thing that I think many forget when they are demanding democratic reforms in countries like Egypt is that our own democratic system did not come overnight, nor did it come without a price.


True , during our Colonial period there was a long discussion about what a rebellion and new government should be like, after Congress was victorious there was a period in which federalism  was hashed out and the principals of which were published to the people , then once the Constitution was written there was also a twelve admendment package proposed for the purpose of insureing certain rights.Ten admendments were adopted which shaped the constitution finally as we know it now, and every few decades another admendment improves its fit for us again.


Expecting perfection early isn't reasonable , especting a good direction to be chosen is reasonable.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 03:59:06 PM »
The Muslim Brotherhood .....is NOT an advocate for any sort of Unified Muslim Caliphate.
The Muslim Brotherhood's own website states that founder HASAN AL-BANNA stated:

"Islam does not recognize geographical boundaries, not does if acknowledge racial and blood differences,
considering all Muslims as one Umma. The Muslim Brethren consider this unity as holy and believe in this
union, striving for the joint action of all Muslims and the strengthening of the brotherhood of Islam,
declaring that every inch of land inhabited by Muslims is their fatherland The Muslim Brethren do not
oppose every one's working for one's own fatherland. They believe that the caliphate
is a symbol of Islamic Union and an indication of the bonds between the nations of Islam.
They see the caliphate and its re-establishment as a top priority, subsequently;
an association of Muslims people should be set up, which would elect the imam"


http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=17065



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 07:45:39 PM »
So does that mean Dearborn MI is no longer part of the USA?