Author Topic: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy  (Read 12093 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 09:52:57 PM »


Obama Stands by Muslim Brotherhood Endorsement  

by Hillel Fendel

For the first time, a U.S. government supports granting a government role to an extremist Islamic organization:
the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

On Monday, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Egypt's new government will have to include a "whole host
of important non-secular actors." Most prominent among these is clearly the Muslim Brotherhood ? which has
made Islamic world domination one of its ultimate goals.
It also opposes Egypt's 30-year-old peace treaty with Israel.

Gibbs said the Muslim Brotherhood must reject violence and recognize democratic goals for the U.S. to be comfortable
with it assuming a role in the new government. This caveat does not significantly alter the new American approach,
which is very different than that of the previous Administration, in which George W. Bush pushed Mubarak for democratic
reforms but never publicly accepted a role for Islamists.

Today, new White House chief of staff William Daley moderated the position very slightly, saying the U.S. hopes for a
"strong, stable and secular Egyptian government." Noting that the strengthening of the Muslim Brotherhood is "some people's
expectation [and] some people's fear," Daley acknowledged that the situation in Egypt is largely out of American control.

Obama's new position, while not totally surprising, is worrisome to many. "The White House appears to be leaving
Hosni Mubarak, an ally for three decades and lynchpin of Mideast stability, twisting slowly in the wind," writes
David Horowitz of the Freedom Center. "And worse, it appears to be open to allowing the Muslim Brotherhood
to play a key role in a 'reformed' Egyptian government, as long as the organization renounces violence and
supports democracy. If the Obama White House really believes this is possible, it is even more hopelessly
incompetent than we imagined!"

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, with 600,000 members, is not on official U.S. terrorism lists, as are Hamas and Hizbullah,
but the American government has had no contact with it because of what Gibbs said were "questions over its commitment
to the rule of law, democracy and nonviolence."

It stands for the re-establishment of the Islamic Empire (Caliphate), the takeover, spiritually or otherwise,
of the entire world, and jihad and martyrdom. It has front organizations in the UK, France, and the United States.

A former Israeli Ambassador to the United Nations, Dr. Dore Gold, writes of a fear that the Muslim Brotherhood,
widely seen as having become moderate over the years, will "exploit a figure like [Mohammed] ElBaradei in order
to hijack the Egyptian revolution at a later stage." Gold noted that ever since the Brotherhood was founded
over 80 years ago, it has engaged in political terrorism, assassinating Prime Minister Mahmoud al-Nuqrashi Pasha
in 1948, trying to kill President Abdul Nasser several years later, and more.

"A former Kuwaiti Minister of Education, Dr. Ahmad Al-Rab'i, argued in Al-Sharq al-Awsat on July 25, 2005 that the
founders of most modern terrorist groups in the Middle East emerged from 'the mantle' of the Muslim Brotherhood,"
Gold writes.

Even Leslie Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, says that the prospect of the Muslim Brotherhood's
rise to power "would be calamitous for U.S. security? The [Brotherhood] supports Hamas and other terrorist groups, makes
friendly noises to Iranian dictators and torturers, would be uncertain landlords of the critical Suez Canal, and opposes the
Egyptian-Israeli agreement of 1979, widely regarded as the foundation of peace in the Mideast. Above all, the [Brotherhood]
would endanger counter terrorism efforts in the region and worldwide? The real danger is that our experts, pundits and
professors will talk the Arab and American worlds into believing we can all trust the [Brotherhood]..."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/142101
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 10:06:58 PM »
Quote
Today, new White House chief of staff William Daley moderated the position very slightly, saying the U.S. hopes for a "strong, stable and secular Egyptian government." Noting that the strengthening of the Muslim Brotherhood is "some people's expectation [and] some people's fear," Daley acknowledged that the situation in Egypt is largely out of American control.

I'm sure if Israel has a problem with this they will take care of it, instead of asking us to do it for them.


Plane

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2011, 02:08:04 AM »
  I really want a good definition of "the caliphate" as a Muslim brother would mean it when he said it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

So is democracy possible for a Caliph?

Plane

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2011, 02:40:32 AM »

Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 04:54:03 AM »
I am having a good laugh at all of the wailing about the MB and their supposed takeover of the Arab world.

Who said that?
The Muslim Brotherhood are one small piece of a complicated puzzle.

Actually, a lot of people. Friends and family included who keep sending me frantic messages about it.

Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2011, 05:00:51 AM »
It stands for the re-establishment of the Islamic Empire (Caliphate), the takeover, spiritually or otherwise,
of the entire world, and jihad and martyrdom. It has front organizations in the UK, France, and the United States.


Jeezus. As if it could ever even happen.

But to answer other questions I see in this thread which address the Caliphate in a historical context, here it is in a more current context: Arab Nationalism - Arab Identity. Caliphate is another one of those Islamic "fear words" that is thrown around, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of Arabs truly desire to be united rather than the current status of being split up into a bunch of different waring countries. And that is a sentiment that is shared across religious boundaries, which is why I purposely am not referring to Islamic Nationalism or Identity.

However, it is also utopian. The Ottoman Empire isn't coming back and they'll never be united like that again. Their interests are too split now.

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2011, 05:12:52 AM »
It stands for the re-establishment of the Islamic Empire (Caliphate), the takeover, spiritually or otherwise,
of the entire world, and jihad and martyrdom. It has front organizations in the UK, France, and the United States.


Jeezus. As if it could ever even happen.

But to answer other questions I see in this thread which address the Caliphate in a historical context, here it is in a more current context: Arab Nationalism - Arab Identity. Caliphate is another one of those Islamic "fear words" that is thrown around, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of Arabs truly desire to be united rather than the current status of being split up into a bunch of different waring countries. And that is a sentiment that is shared across religious boundaries, which is why I purposely am not referring to Islamic Nationalism or Identity.

However, it is also utopian. The Ottoman Empire isn't coming back and they'll never be united like that again. Their interests are too split now.

So the Muslim Brotherhood is no more onerous than the Knights of Columbus, but with less drinking?

Like Western societies are built upon Judeo-Christian Principles the MB is wanting the same bonds of fraternity in Arab lands?

« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 05:20:19 AM by BT »

Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2011, 09:39:27 AM »
It stands for the re-establishment of the Islamic Empire (Caliphate), the takeover, spiritually or otherwise,
of the entire world, and jihad and martyrdom. It has front organizations in the UK, France, and the United States.


Jeezus. As if it could ever even happen.

But to answer other questions I see in this thread which address the Caliphate in a historical context, here it is in a more current context: Arab Nationalism - Arab Identity. Caliphate is another one of those Islamic "fear words" that is thrown around, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of Arabs truly desire to be united rather than the current status of being split up into a bunch of different waring countries. And that is a sentiment that is shared across religious boundaries, which is why I purposely am not referring to Islamic Nationalism or Identity.

However, it is also utopian. The Ottoman Empire isn't coming back and they'll never be united like that again. Their interests are too split now.

So the Muslim Brotherhood is no more onerous than the Knights of Columbus, but with less drinking?

Like Western societies are built upon Judeo-Christian Principles the MB is wanting the same bonds of fraternity in Arab lands?



BT, I really don't see them as any threat as I mentioned before, BUT, I don't trust any one group who gains absolute control without the checks and balances of a true democracy. And that is the biggest problem that I see in Egypt - that regardless of who gains control that even if elections are free and fair the first time, it might be all downhill after that. The MB with unchecked power might end up evolving into something else entirely.

Note that I don't think they'd ever get like Saudi - simply because the only thing reason that the Saudis can get away with their abysmmal human rights record is because they are loaded with oil money and not so much dependent on the support from the rest of the world. Egypt is dependent hugely on tourism, for example. If a group started throwing burqas on women and banning what they consider to be vices, the entire country would suffer.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2011, 11:10:53 AM »
The Caliphate is akin to the concept of Christendom: a vague idea that has only been approximated in the past and that has no hope of existing in the future. Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Libya and Iraq, during the Nasser regime, at one time or another claimed to be united as the "United Arab Republic", but this never worked out, because Egypt dominated the union to the detriment of the other entities.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 11:30:06 AM »
So the Muslim Brotherhood is no more onerous than the Knights of Columbus, but with less drinking?

yeah sure BT....lol
but i'll bite anyway

Is the Knights of Columbus asking people to prepare for War against other independent countries?
http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

Is the Knights of Columbus demanding government regimes to be overthrown?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/03/us-egypt-brotherhood-idUSTRE71225H20110203

Were many of the world's current leading terrorists influenced or taught by the Knights of Columbus?
al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri and 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed came of age in
Muslim Brotherhood....Abdel Rahman notoriously had a close working relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Has the Knights of Columbus ever had a group (Hamas) grow out of it that carried out suicide bombings
and attacks using mortars and short-range rockets....and fired military weapons at neighboring countries
civilian cities?

Has the Knights of Columbus ever attempted an assassination of a country's leader like the Muslim Brotherhood
did with Nasser in Egypt?

Does the Knights of Columbus have a motto that talks about jihad and dying for the cause?
The Muslim Brotherhood's motto:
"Allah is our objective, the Prophet is our leader, the Koran is our law,
Jihad is our way, and dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.
Allahu akbar!"



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2011, 12:09:36 PM »
I'm sure one could find parallels between arms of the Catholic Church and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Crusades come to mind. The existence of the IRA comes to mind. Poland, Solidarity and Rome come to mind. The prayers for the return of the Holy Mother Church in Russia come to mind.



Henny

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2011, 01:03:02 PM »
So the Muslim Brotherhood is no more onerous than the Knights of Columbus, but with less drinking?

yeah sure BT....lol
but i'll bite anyway

Is the Knights of Columbus asking people to prepare for War against other independent countries?
http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

Is the Knights of Columbus demanding government regimes to be overthrown?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/03/us-egypt-brotherhood-idUSTRE71225H20110203

Were many of the world's current leading terrorists influenced or taught by the Knights of Columbus?
al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri and 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed came of age in
Muslim Brotherhood....Abdel Rahman notoriously had a close working relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Has the Knights of Columbus ever had a group (Hamas) grow out of it that carried out suicide bombings
and attacks using mortars and short-range rockets....and fired military weapons at neighboring countries
civilian cities?

Has the Knights of Columbus ever attempted an assassination of a country's leader like the Muslim Brotherhood
did with Nasser in Egypt?

Does the Knights of Columbus have a motto that talks about jihad and dying for the cause?
The Muslim Brotherhood's motto:
"Allah is our objective, the Prophet is our leader, the Koran is our law,
Jihad is our way, and dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.
Allahu akbar!"





Give the KoC enough kegs, political control and no checks and balances... and who knows what happens next?  :D

Plane

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2011, 01:53:59 PM »
I'm sure one could find parallels between arms of the Catholic Church and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Crusades come to mind. The existence of the IRA comes to mind. Poland, Solidarity and Rome come to mind. The prayers for the return of the Holy Mother Church in Russia come to mind.





   How much like the Crusades is it ?

   If it is very simular we are talking about horror.

BT

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2011, 03:04:33 PM »
I'm sure one could find parallels between arms of the Catholic Church and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Crusades come to mind. The existence of the IRA comes to mind. Poland, Solidarity and Rome come to mind. The prayers for the return of the Holy Mother Church in Russia come to mind.





   How much like the Crusades is it ?

   If it is very simular we are talking about horror.

Well they don't have the equivalent of the Pope and all the alliances with the various heads of state so where they are and where they hope to be are orders of magnitude apart.

Henny brought up a good point. Is the MBs desire to install a code of justice based on Sharia Law much different than those who implemented social laws based on their interpretation of the bible? And maybe some good will come of it. Blue laws begat NASCAR


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2011, 07:17:41 PM »
And maybe some good will come of it. Blue laws begat NASCAR

Yeah BT.....oh I cant wait for Sharia too!
Maybe Sharia can hammer women, execute the homos, and usher in more socialism!
We see how far "that model" has advanced those societies.
Lots of impressive achievments compared to the Judeo-Christian Western Values!  ::)
Oh the poor things were dominated by the West....BoooooWhoooo
How come nobody has dominated the West?
How come we dont have a built-in excuse/crutch for failure?
Your "find every excuse" to defend & attempt moral equivalence is really sickening BT.
yeah the Crusades almost a 1000 years years ago really has relevance to Muslim fanatics killing 1000's today!
yeah the entire IRA body count compares to radical Islam!  ::)
Maybe people motivated by Islam will blow up more buildings here in the US and
you can race to defend their right to build "islam cultural centers" there too!
I say lets build a mosque or Islam Cultural Center in the field in PA where the Sept 11 plane crashed!
when Islam brings a nuke to the US & blasts away everything you hold dear you'll realize how wrong you are.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987