The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy

[BT]

I doubt you would be subject to Sharia Law being an infidel and all.

But what really is your problem with them having their own religious beliefs and customs in their own countries?

I mean Jews are here in America and i don't keep kosher. So what's the deal?

[Henny]

I doubt you would be subject to Sharia Law being an infidel and all.

But what really is your problem with them having their own religious beliefs and customs in their own countries?

I mean Jews are here in America and i don't keep kosher. So what's the deal?

Excellent point. I'm living under Sharia law now in Jordan, but get a pass for not being a Muslim. And you also don't read much about hangings of gays in Jordan or stonings of adulterers - cuz it never happens.

Sharia is another Islam scare word. Clearly, one size doesn't fit all even among Muslims.

[sirs]

Ignoring the fact that it was the MB that apparently assasinated Sadat, I'd like Miss Henny and/or Bt to help refute this op-ed, at their convenience of course.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No Matter What Their U.S. Name, They're the Muslim Brotherhood

Guess who said the following?

"The earliest defenders of Islam would defend their more numerous and better-equipped oppressors because the early Muslims loved death -- dying for the sake of almighty Allah -- more than the oppressors of Muslims loved life. This must be the case when we are fighting life's other battles."

I know I haven't asked a fair question. As Andrew McCarthy put it recently, "that leitmotif -- We love death more than you love life -- has been a staple of every jihadist from bin Laden through Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood killer."

He isn't kidding. In 2008, as McCarthy notes, the "Supreme Guide" of the Muslim Brotherhood, Muhammad Mahdi Akef, while praising Osama bin Laden, urged teaching young people "the principles of jihad so as to create mujahidin who love to die as much as others love to live." In 2004, the 3/11 bombers in Madrid left behind a tape saying, "We choose death, while you choose life." MEMRI's Steven Stalinsky has noted the origins of this necro-parable in the Battle of Qadisiyya, 636, when the Muslim commander called for the conversion to Islam of his Persian enemies "for if you don't, you should know that I have come to you with an army of men that love death, as you love life."

Just to be sporting, here's more of the same mystery quotation: "What are our oppressors going to do with a people like us? We are prepared to give our lives for the cause of Islam."

Chilling, but not helpful, right? Similar death-cult code could come from any jihadist, from Mohammed Atta, in his night-before-9/11 instructions, to Anwar al-Awlaki, in his e-mails "ministering" to the underpants bomber, Umar F. Abdulmutallab.

But could it also come from a former Bush administration appointee? A board director of the American Conservative Union (ACU), sponsor of the C-PAC convention in Washington, D.C., where the newest batch of 2012 presidential hopefuls have been speech-o-flexing before 10,000 grassroots activists?

The surprise answer is yes. The former Bush official and ACU board member who I am quoting above is Suhail Khan, a protege, you might say, of the weirdly influential, not-very-conservative activist Grover Norquist. Khan's shocking quotation -- shocking, that is, for a classic conservative, but not for a classical jihadist -- comes from a 1999 speech Khan gave at another convention, that of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA).

As Suhail Khan has said himself, his father, Mahboob Khan, helped found and was very active in ISNA. He said so in that same 1999 speech, further pledging as his "life's work, inspired by my dear father's shining legacy ... to work for the umma," which means transnational Islam. According to a key internal document of the Muslim Brotherhood, ISNA is a Muslim Brotherhood front, probably the largest one in America. Which means that no matter what CNN's Anderson Cooper ignorantly accepted from Khan as fact recently, Khan's father, Mahboob Khan, was part of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB or Ikhwan) in America.

That's right, America. The Brotherhood isn't merely an Egyptian movement committed to Islamic world government (caliphate) and Shariah (Islamic law); the Brothers are here. According to evidence introduced by the U.S. government in the 2008 Holy Land Foundation trial, MB claims 29 front and "friendly" organizations that include virtually every big Muslim organization such as ISNA and CAIR. Due to the mass suicidal reflex known as "Muslim Outreach,' representatives from these fronts are routinely invited into practically every American institution to pronounce on all things Islamic. What we're talking about is an influence operation to rival, or perhaps surpass, that of the communist Kremlin.

Are the ACU and C-PAC easier marks? I have read through and watched what is by now a compendium of literature on the subject, the lion's share on the subject by Frank Gaffney, a former Reagan Pentagon official who started tracking this phenomenon in 1999. I believe all the signs of an MB influence operation are there -- troubling signs that spell an ultimate transformation of C-PAC conservatism.

Conservative leaders, the 10,000 activists and all those presidential hopefuls must ask themselves: At what point does MB influence become a liability for conservatives? After it's completely successful?

[Plane]

Have you seen this gross photo?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110211/ts_yblog_thecutline/worlds-best-news-photo-is-time-cover-of-disfigured-afghan-woman

This is tipical Taliban, their members seem empowered to exact extreme retribution in the cause of their sort of justice.  The Taliban has a lot in common with the KKK the nearest American equivelent.

  Americans who want to get elected have to be willing to denounce the KKK even if there has never been a connection to be renounced.

   There is a distinction to be made between the MB and the Taliban , they are not the same thing .

But......

   Does the Muslim Brotherhood denounce the Taliban?

[sirs]

   There is a distinction to be made between the MB and the Taliban , they are not the same thing .

But......

   Does the Muslim Brotherhood denounce the Taliban?

This has been an ongoing great question Plane.  Under Bush, I recall the same query, as to why aren't more moderate muslim, especially those in power, demonstrating any widespread condemnation by the acts of Islamic terrorists, AlQeada, and the Taliban?  And, IIRC, there were lots of rationalization efforts on how they really couldn't

Which then, unfortunately enables those same terrorist elements to do even more and far greater death & damage

And, what if someone(s) are actually supportive of the likes of Bin Laden.  Are we to take them seriously as an appropriate arm of trying to bring "democracy" to the region?

[Xavier_Onassis]

For someone who has never lived in a country or even visited a country to demand that group X denounce group Y is simply silly. The Muslim Brotherhood officially wants to impose the Koran on the people, and the Family wants to make sure that all the world's leaders swear fealty to Jesus Christ. So what? If I were an Egyptian, I would not vote for the MB. But to deliberately harass a group by demanding that they take an oath against some other group is likely to be counterproductive.

[sirs]

...not to mention enabling that of the one group, with some perceived ipso-facto support.  Aounter productive to terrorist organizations, perhaps, or those that seek the status quo. 

What do you think the people of Egypt/group X are doing....widespread condemnation and denouncement of Mubarak/group Y.  And guess which just stepped down and lost power??

[Xavier_Onassis]

Mubarak stood for mostly just one thing: Mubarak staying in power.

I would say that we should regard the stated objectives of the MB as we do the political platforms of our political parties: the Republicans endorsed the Bricker Amendment for thirty years, as well as an anti-flag-burning amendment. But they never really tried to get these things done.

Most Egyptians are NOT members of the MB, and it is mostly a man's organization. There are already a number of MB members in the Egyptian Parliament. What we need to do is to watch what people DO, rather than what they say.

[Henny]

What part do you want refuted, Sirs? The MB is in every corner of the world and always have been. To be honest, I skimmed this. I've been refuting anti-MB propaganda for the past 3 weeks and I'm tired of it. (No offense to you, Sirs.) So you have some statements taken out of an entire speech, which means you've lost context. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Bush was actively engaging a dangerous Islamist.

Also, I think it should be remembered that the MB is NOT on the U.S. terrorists lists and the U.S. knows and has always known that they are there.

But if a large number of Americans want to believe that the MB is the boogeyman under the bed, believing every word in the distorted media (CNN and Fox News look the same to me from this point of view) and parroting the stories they are told to believe, that's really their choice. I just wish that more people could see it from the other angles as well. I wish I could beam you over my satellite connection with news broadcasts from numerous different nations to show you all how different it sounds, to see other people's views of Arab and Muslim political realities.

Ignoring the fact that it was the MB that apparently assasinated Sadat, I'd like Miss Henny and/or Bt to help refute this op-ed, at their convenience of course.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No Matter What Their U.S. Name, They're the Muslim Brotherhood

Guess who said the following?

"The earliest defenders of Islam would defend their more numerous and better-equipped oppressors because the early Muslims loved death -- dying for the sake of almighty Allah -- more than the oppressors of Muslims loved life. This must be the case when we are fighting life's other battles."

I know I haven't asked a fair question. As Andrew McCarthy put it recently, "that leitmotif -- We love death more than you love life -- has been a staple of every jihadist from bin Laden through Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood killer."

He isn't kidding. In 2008, as McCarthy notes, the "Supreme Guide" of the Muslim Brotherhood, Muhammad Mahdi Akef, while praising Osama bin Laden, urged teaching young people "the principles of jihad so as to create mujahidin who love to die as much as others love to live." In 2004, the 3/11 bombers in Madrid left behind a tape saying, "We choose death, while you choose life." MEMRI's Steven Stalinsky has noted the origins of this necro-parable in the Battle of Qadisiyya, 636, when the Muslim commander called for the conversion to Islam of his Persian enemies "for if you don't, you should know that I have come to you with an army of men that love death, as you love life."

Just to be sporting, here's more of the same mystery quotation: "What are our oppressors going to do with a people like us? We are prepared to give our lives for the cause of Islam."

Chilling, but not helpful, right? Similar death-cult code could come from any jihadist, from Mohammed Atta, in his night-before-9/11 instructions, to Anwar al-Awlaki, in his e-mails "ministering" to the underpants bomber, Umar F. Abdulmutallab.

But could it also come from a former Bush administration appointee? A board director of the American Conservative Union (ACU), sponsor of the C-PAC convention in Washington, D.C., where the newest batch of 2012 presidential hopefuls have been speech-o-flexing before 10,000 grassroots activists?

The surprise answer is yes. The former Bush official and ACU board member who I am quoting above is Suhail Khan, a protege, you might say, of the weirdly influential, not-very-conservative activist Grover Norquist. Khan's shocking quotation -- shocking, that is, for a classic conservative, but not for a classical jihadist -- comes from a 1999 speech Khan gave at another convention, that of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA).

As Suhail Khan has said himself, his father, Mahboob Khan, helped found and was very active in ISNA. He said so in that same 1999 speech, further pledging as his "life's work, inspired by my dear father's shining legacy ... to work for the umma," which means transnational Islam. According to a key internal document of the Muslim Brotherhood, ISNA is a Muslim Brotherhood front, probably the largest one in America. Which means that no matter what CNN's Anderson Cooper ignorantly accepted from Khan as fact recently, Khan's father, Mahboob Khan, was part of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB or Ikhwan) in America.

That's right, America. The Brotherhood isn't merely an Egyptian movement committed to Islamic world government (caliphate) and Shariah (Islamic law); the Brothers are here. According to evidence introduced by the U.S. government in the 2008 Holy Land Foundation trial, MB claims 29 front and "friendly" organizations that include virtually every big Muslim organization such as ISNA and CAIR. Due to the mass suicidal reflex known as "Muslim Outreach,' representatives from these fronts are routinely invited into practically every American institution to pronounce on all things Islamic. What we're talking about is an influence operation to rival, or perhaps surpass, that of the communist Kremlin.

Are the ACU and C-PAC easier marks? I have read through and watched what is by now a compendium of literature on the subject, the lion's share on the subject by Frank Gaffney, a former Reagan Pentagon official who started tracking this phenomenon in 1999. I believe all the signs of an MB influence operation are there -- troubling signs that spell an ultimate transformation of C-PAC conservatism.

Conservative leaders, the 10,000 activists and all those presidential hopefuls must ask themselves: At what point does MB influence become a liability for conservatives? After it's completely successful?

[sirs]

Mubarak stood for mostly just one thing: Mubarak staying in power....Most Egyptians are NOT members of the MB, and it is mostly a man's organization. There are already a number of MB members in the Egyptian Parliament. What we need to do is to watch what people DO, rather than what they say.

A) never said anyone was a member of MB, much less "most Egyptians"

B) The people of Egypt/group X demonstrated widespread condemnation and denouncement of Mubarak & his government/group Y. 

You apparently must think his resignation was counterproductive

[sirs]

What part do you want refuted, Sirs? The MB is in every corner of the world and always have been. To be honest, I skimmed this. I've been refuting anti-MB propaganda for the past 3 weeks and I'm tired of it.

I can concede you must be tired of it.  And it then becomes easy to call anything critical of MB as merely propoganda.  By all means, take whatever time you need to rest and go at this article, full boar....if you so want the challenge  My point is that perhaps the MB isn't quite as "innocent" and merely looking for democracy, as you might have me believe.  I didn't realize that they were the ones behind Sadat's assasination, until this AM.  That while Mubarak may have been an oppressive dictator, with horrible conditions in Egypt, is that perhaps better than an organization that has as its calling card references analogus to AlQeada's goals?  The Taliban?

And of course, that's not our call.  It's the people of Egypt, of Jordan, or any other country in the Middle East, to make that call.  That said, allowing things to play out, and potentially producing IranII, or a border country to Israel now bent on its destruction vs a longstanding peace agreement, something that's in the best interests of America's national security?   

[BT]

I didn't realize that they were the ones behind Sadat's assasination, until this AM. 

Source?

[Christians4LessGvt]

Henny...where are all the examples of Muslim/Arab huge success in the last couple of centuries?
Do we see great innovation coming from those countries?
Do we see multiple breakthrough life-changing medical and drug inventions?
When is Syria going to produce a Toyota Corportion or a Boeing?
Do some people never look in the mirrror & admit a huge part of their failures are their own fault?
Is it always "somebody else's fault"?.....Are they forever gonna blame a boogy-man?
As if had the US not supported Mubarak that Egypt would be creating Apple and Microsofts?
There are pissed off people everywhere....even where the US is not involved
There are people pissed in Russia....China.....life is hell...unless ya got somebody to always blame.

[sirs]

I didn't realize that they were the ones behind Sadat's assasination, until this AM. 

Source?

I heard it on the news this AM, on the radio


------------------------------------------------------


The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hasan al-Banna, a 22-year-old elementary school teacher, as an Islamic revivalist movement following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent ban of the caliphate system of government that had united the Muslims for hundreds of years. Al-Banna based his ideas that Islam was not only a religious observance, but a comprehensive way of life, on the tenets of Wahhabism, better known today as "Islamism", and he supplemented the traditional Islamic education for the Society's male students with jihadia training.

The Brotherhood grew as a popular movement over the next 20 years, encompassing not only religion and education, but also politics, through the Party of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb Al-Ikhwan Al-Muslimoon. It blamed the Egyptian government for being passive against "Zionists" and joined the Palestinian side in the war against Israel; and started performing terrorist acts inside of Egypt, which led to a ban on the movement by the Egyptian government. A Muslim Brother assassinated the Prime Minister of Egypt, Mahmud Fahmi Nokrashi, on December 28, 1948. Al-Banna himself was killed by government agents in Cairo in February, 1949.

The Egyptian government legalized the Brotherhood again in 1948, but only as a religious organization; it was banned again in 1954 because it insisted that Egypt be governed under shari'a (Islamic law).

Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf, a Brotherhood activist, attempted to assassinate Egyptian President Nasser in 1954 and was executed, along with five other Brothers. Four thousand Brothers were also arrested, and thousands more fled to Syria, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, and Lebanon.

In 1964, Nasser granted amnesty to the imprisoned Brothers, hoping that their release would weaken interest in the recently formed Arab Socialist Union party; the result was three more assassination attempts by the Brothers on Nasser?s life. The top leaders of the Brotherhood were executed in 1966, and many others were imprisoned.

Nasser's successor, Anwar-as-Sadat, promised the Brothers that shari'a would be implemented as the Egyptian law and released all of the Brotherhood prisoners; however, the Brothers lost their trust in Sadat when he signed the peace agreement with Israel in 1979; four Brothers assassinated Sadat in September, 1981.

One source, other than hearing it on the radio

[BT]

I didn't realize that they were the ones behind Sadat's assasination, until this AM. 

Source?

I heard it on the news this AM, on the radio

Did the radio folks source the accusation?