Author Topic: Saddam Hussein executed  (Read 24443 times)

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Amianthus

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2006, 06:22:51 PM »
And what's IIRC?

If I Recall Correctly

Not a word about deciding that Saddam was innocent.

Didn't say he was removed for "showing too much regard" either.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2006, 07:29:34 PM »
Not a word about deciding that Saddam was innocent.

Didn't say he was removed for "showing too much regard" either.

D'OH
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2006, 11:13:10 PM »
The record speaks for itself
J.R. Dunn

Lenin - Dead of the complications of a stroke, perhaps assisted by poisoning, January 21, 1924.


Benito Mussolini - Executed without judicial procedure by communist partisans, April 28 1945. The act was robbed of any meaning by the concurrent murder of his innocent mistress, Clara Petacci.


Adolf Hitler - Dead by his own hand beneath the ruins of the Berlin Chancellory, April 30, 1945.


Stalin - Dead of stroke aided by medical neglect at age 74 at his dacha outside Moscow, March 5, 1953.


Ho Chi Minh - Dead of heart failure at age 79 at his home in Hanoi, September 2, 1969.


Francisco Franco - Dead of old age at 82 on November 20, 1975.


Mao Tse Tung - Dead of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis at age 82, on September 9, 1976.


Tito - Dead of circulatory problems on May 4, 1980, three days before his 88th birthday.


Nicolae Ceaucescu - Shot out of hand at age 71 after a bogus "trial" following a national
uprising, December 25, 1989.


Ruhollah Khomeini - Dead of cancer on June 3, 1989, at the age of 89.


Kim Il-sung - Dead of a heart attack at 82 in Pyongyang, July 8, 1994.


Pol Pot - Dead at age 72 (possibly a suicide) on April 16, 1998, while waiting to be turned over to an international tribunal.


Idi Amin Dada - Dead of old age at age 79 on August 16, 2003, after years of exile in Saudi
Arabia.


Slobodan Milosevic - Dead in his cell under unexplained circumstances while in the hands of an international criminal tribunal at the Hague, March 11, 2006.


Most of the great butchers of the 20th century died of old age, in their own beds, some of
them honored by millions. Not a single one met justice in the sense accepted in free states across the world. The handful who died otherwise are aberrations, victims of strange events that act as models for nothing.


There is one single exception - the hanging of Saddam Hussein on December 30, 2006
after a careful, lengthy trial carried out under extremely difficult circumstances according to
internationally recognized judicial norms. The state of Iraq has succeeded where the rest of the civilized world has failed. It is a singular achievement, and it will stand. 
 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2006/12/the_record_speaks_for_itself.html

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2006, 01:55:50 AM »
<<Didn't say he was removed for "showing too much regard" either.>>

I didn't claim to be reciting the exact words of the reasons given for removing the judge.  "Showing too much regard" for the accused (as I put it) and saying that he was no dictator are fairly close in meaning. 

Saying that he was innocent (as you put it)  is something very much removed from the truth. 

Also for a judge to decide before the trial begins that the accused was innocent (as you claimed happened) would have been a valid reason for removing the judge - - but saying during the trial that the man was no dictator is no reason whatsoever.  Saddam was never charged with "being a dictator" so the remark, even if made, would not have justified yanking the judge.  Besides which, depending on context, the remark could have meant any one of several things.

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2006, 02:03:15 AM »
<< . . .   the hanging of Saddam Hussein on December 30, 2006
after a careful, lengthy trial carried out under extremely difficult circumstances according to
internationally recognized judicial norms.>>

ROTFLMFAO.  What "internationally known judicial norm" permits the government to yank a judge off the bench in the middle of a capital trial and replace him with someone less sympathetic to the accused because they don't like something he said?  That trial was rigged from the very first day.  Too bad you didn't read Juan Cole's article in Salon magazine about it, to which Knute was good enough to post the link.

BT

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2006, 02:11:07 AM »
Juan Cole is objective as Ted Rall.

Fact is the trial was run according to Iraqi law as ratified by the elected representatives of the people.

No one says the laws have to be perfect.

Most constitutions allow for them to be changed. Just as most constituitions allow for judicial review.

Saddam is gone.

Buh Bye


Mucho

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2006, 02:24:34 AM »
Juan Cole is objective as Ted Rall.

Fact is the trial was run according to Iraqi law as ratified by the elected representatives of the people.

No one says the laws have to be perfect.

Most constitutions allow for them to be changed. Just as most constituitions allow for judicial review.

Saddam is gone.

Buh Bye



Death & murder is the only proof  fascists ever need whether it is Saddam, the Bushidiot or the warmongers agui.

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2006, 02:29:56 AM »
<<Juan Cole is objective as Ted Rall.>>

Oh Jeeziz.  A political commentator with a POV.  Why listen to HIM?

<<Fact is the trial was run according to Iraqi law as ratified by the elected representatives of the people. >>

First of all, they aren't the elected representatives of anybody because the election was rigged by the Americans.  No Ba'athists or Saddam loyalists were even permitted to run.  But let that pass - - there is no law in any democratic country that I am aware of that permits the government to replace a judge in mid-trial because they don't like something he said.  The Iraqi law does not permit that and so the trial was NOT run according to Iraqi law.

<<No one says the laws have to be perfect. >>

No one says they have to be ridiculously unfair and stacked agaisnt the accused, particularly in a capital case.  As a matter of fact, the law in a capital case should be as close to perfect as laws can get, because a mistake can't be undone.  In this case, yanking the judge in the midst of the trial for saying what the government didn't want to hear is a gross violation of the most basic and fundamental legal right a man can have, i.e. the right to a fair trial when his life's at stake.

<<Most constitutions allow for them to be changed. Just as most constituitions allow for judicial review. >>

That was the final proof of the farcical nature of the proceedings - - the appellate court seems to find no problem with the government replacing judges who seem to be too sympathetic to the accused.  Indicating the whole system is a kangaroo court from the trial to the appeal level.  They rubber-stamped a decision which even a first-year law student would instantly recognize as a travesty.

<<Saddam is gone. >>

So is the pretence that he was given a fair trial.

<<Buh Bye>. to Saddam AND to the US Government's and MSM fraudulent claims of a fair trial.  In their dreams.

BT

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2006, 03:53:56 AM »
Quote
But let that pass - - there is no law in any democratic country that I am aware of that permits the government to replace a judge in mid-trial because they don't like something he said.  The Iraqi law does not permit that and so the trial was NOT run according to Iraqi law.

Sure there is. Judges with even the slightest modicum of honor recuse themselves if their is even the appearance of conflict all the time. Don't know how the handle it in Canada but in America it happens frequently.

And Cole not only has a biased point of view but he has quite the reputation for playing fast and loose with the facts.

Mucho

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2006, 10:51:56 AM »
Quote
But let that pass - - there is no law in any democratic country that I am aware of that permits the government to replace a judge in mid-trial because they don't like something he said.  The Iraqi law does not permit that and so the trial was NOT run according to Iraqi law.

Sure there is. Judges with even the slightest modicum of honor recuse themselves if their is even the appearance of conflict all the time. Don't know how the handle it in Canada but in America it happens frequently.

And Cole not only has a biased point of view but he has quite the reputation for playing fast and loose with the facts.


Professor Cole has been correct on just about everything he has said while y'all were always wrong. The "facts" you were looking at were lies and nearly everyone but you know that now.

Religious Dick

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2006, 10:56:58 AM »

There is one single exception - the hanging of Saddam Hussein on December 30, 2006
after a careful, lengthy trial carried out under extremely difficult circumstances according to
internationally recognized judicial norms. The state of Iraq has succeeded where the rest of the civilized world has failed. It is a singular achievement, and it will stand. 
 


Interesting that what he was convicted for was the murder of 148 Shias after an assassination attempt. Somehow, the 5000 Kurds he allegedly gassed never made it into the court, although to hear the war-bots tell it, that particular occurrence was a demonstrable and incontestable fact.

Now, what makes this interesting is that, at least in the US, when a prosecuter charges, say, a serial killer, he's generally going to try and pin every last body that turns up on the defendant.

In this case, the crime of which Saddam was actually charged and convicted, compared with the allegations used to justify the invasion of Iraq, was a relative footnote. And considering there were plenty of reservations concerning the legitimacy and competence of the court in which he was tried in many quarters, you would have thought more effort would have been expended to demonstrate Saddam was every bit the monster he was claimed to be. But no, he was tried on the minimum charge he could be hanged for, and then hung as quickly as possible.

Why the rush? Obviously, he wasn't going anywhere, and you would think the Bush administration would have an interest in substantiating every last possible allegation used to justify the invasion. You would think that Saddam would have been more valuable to the authorities alive than dead.

Could it be that, possibly, if Saddam had lived, he might have been able to successfully contest some of those allegations if tried for them?
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2006, 11:17:19 AM »
The fact is that Saddam was NOT executed for the one crime that everyone mentioned: gassing fellow Iraqi men, women and children.
I suppose that the prosecution chose cases that were more provable, and perhaps more politically useful.

It wasn't like he was innocent. He was guilty as Hell of all sorts of dastardly acts.

I recall Nixon was also guilty of slightly less dastardly acts, be he got a pardon 'for the good of the nation.'
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Religious Dick

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2006, 11:33:44 AM »
The fact is that Saddam was NOT executed for the one crime that everyone mentioned: gassing fellow Iraqi men, women and children.
I suppose that the prosecution chose cases that were more provable, and perhaps more politically useful.

It wasn't like he was innocent. He was guilty as Hell of all sorts of dastardly acts.

I recall Nixon was also guilty of slightly less dastardly acts, be he got a pardon 'for the good of the nation.'


Well, that's my point. Saddam was no angel, to be sure. But I find it curious that some of the most damning allegations against him were never contested in a court of law. And I find it hard to believe that if he did indeed gas 5000 Kurds that there wouldn't be sufficient evidence to convict him.

I'm starting to smell a rat - when push comes to shove, it turns out that few of the allegations against the major players in the post-9/11 psychodrama are ever substantiated.

On the basis of the publicly available evidence, what do you think the chances are that a prosecuter could obtain a conviction against Osama bin Laden in connection with the WTC attack?

I don't think he could. Which may go a long way in explaining why bin Laden has never been captured.
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Amianthus

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2006, 11:41:07 AM »
On the basis of the publicly available evidence, what do you think the chances are that a prosecuter could obtain a conviction against Osama bin Laden in connection with the WTC attack?

You don't think a filmed confession is enough?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Religious Dick

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2006, 11:49:10 AM »
On the basis of the publicly available evidence, what do you think the chances are that a prosecuter could obtain a conviction against Osama bin Laden in connection with the WTC attack?

You don't think a filmed confession is enough?

First off, it's not clear that his statement was actually a confession. His statements on the matter were pretty ambiguous, depending on what version of the translation you hear.

Second, even if he did, ask any cop how many false confessions the police get to major crimes every day. Keep in mind, in some parts of the world, the WTC attacks aren't considered a crime, but an act of heroism. He'd have some incentive for claiming credit, even if he wasn't involved.

Cases with filmed confessions are thrown out of court every day. No, I don't think it's enough.
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke