Record Stock Market

[Brassmask]

Great deflection Js.  Plane demonstrates an ominous comparison, but you brush it right under the rug.  So, only Americans are not very migratory, and yet the flocks of folks we get all seem to come here vs those other heavenly locales you mentioned.  Why is that?  Tunnel Vision?  Stircter (read; less free) immigration standards/requirements?

You act like nobody ever moves to these other countries.  I would like to see some real numbers on people who WANT to move to certain countries.  Most other countries have a lower percentage of immigration because they are choosier about who they let in and are concerned about the population of their nation.  Whether that is "right" or "wrong" is another discussion. 

You guys seem to live under the delusion that everyone in the world is just salivating over the thought of moving to the US.  And if they are, I'd bet the number one reason they would want to move ihere would be "The US won't be invading the US and bombing everybody to death."

[sirs]

Great deflection Js.  Plane demonstrates an ominous comparison, but you brush it right under the rug.  So, only Americans are not very migratory, and yet the flocks of folks we get all seem to come here vs those other heavenly locales you mentioned.  Why is that?  Tunnel Vision?  Stircter (read; less free) immigration standards/requirements?

You act like nobody ever moves to these other countries. 

Never said or implied such.  the implication was in why are there not mass amounts of folks flocking to those other countries, like they are to us.  You don't hear of such huge amounts of immigration literally overwhelming any of those other countries, and they're a fraction of our size.  Those answers continue to be provided, but continue to be ignored.

[_JS]

Great deflection Js.  Plane demonstrates an ominous comparison, but you brush it right under the rug.  So, only Americans are not very migratory, and yet the flocks of folks we get all seem to come here vs those other heavenly locales you mentioned.  Why is that?  Tunnel Vision?  Stircter (read; less free) immigration standards/requirements?

Show me the statistics. You and Plane made an assertion Sirs. Show me the statistics of how many from each of the countries I mentioned moved to the United States in 2006 (or 2005). Then show me how many Americans moved to those nations. Then we can discuss variables that might lead them to move.

Because our constitution mandates a military defense.  I doubt very seriously Sweden could repel any agreesive take over attempt by some other hostile nation, if that were to ever occur.  It does NOT mandate universal healthcare

When was the last time Sweden was succesfully invaded? The United Kingdom? Care to venture a guess? Oh that's right - before the United States ever existed. I'd say their track record is pretty damn good. Who is going to invade Sweden? Denmark? Finland? Norway?

Come back when you have a grown up argument.

I tell you what Js, when you can start representing my comments accurately & honestly, I'll be more inclined to provide greater detail to my responses.

It was on purpose, and you of course did the same to me with "heavenly locales."

Now, do you have the information or not? Seriously Sirs. Is your argument based on fact or are you simply making this stuff up?

Please tell me what freedoms are denied in the nations I listed that are allowed in the United States.

Please give me the percentages of what we spend more on domestically and foreign compared to those nations.

Or were you blowing smoke?

[Brassmask]

Hogwash.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_pergdp-immigration-new-citizenships-per-gdp

[Brassmask]

Then there's this.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit-immigration-new-citizenships

[yellow_crane]

Great deflection Js.  Plane demonstrates an ominous comparison, but you brush it right under the rug.  So, only Americans are not very migratory, and yet the flocks of folks we get all seem to come here vs those other heavenly locales you mentioned.  Why is that?  Tunnel Vision?  Stircter (read; less free) immigration standards/requirements?

You act like nobody ever moves to these other countries.  I would like to see some real numbers on people who WANT to move to certain countries.  Most other countries have a lower percentage of immigration because they are choosier about who they let in and are concerned about the population of their nation.  Whether that is "right" or "wrong" is another discussion. 

You guys seem to live under the delusion that everyone in the world is just salivating over the thought of moving to the US.  And if they are, I'd bet the number one reason they would want to move ihere would be "The US won't be invading the US and bombing everybody to death."

Switzerland will accept no immigrants.  At all.  They also explain to the tourists as they travel through tunnels that the tunnels are wired to explode, given any invasion.  The mountains would compliment the obstruction, at least back when.

Given the irony of the Heidi archetype, I find the Swiss to be odious, specious and criminal.  Their banking system, which is no culmination of evolution of banking in that country, enables world-wide crime.  Everybody who has bucks to hide can do so in Switzerland.  They are the world's most efficient fence.  If countries were mafioso, Switzerland would be Lansky.  As far as White Racists go, they rank above the Reichland and the various hillbilly havens of hate here.

They have placed themselves in exactly the same middle pivot that they all accuse the evil Jews of doing.

Remarkable.

Then there is the pharmetceuticals, which are largely the prevailing criminal cash cow extant.

   

[Amianthus]

Switzerland will accept no immigrants.  At all.

Bullshit.

Naturalization

Swiss citizenship can be acquired through what is called naturalization.
To become naturalized, you need to have resided in Switzerland for at least twelve years, three of which occurred within the five years prior to the request. Time spent in Switzerland between the ages of 10 and 20 years counts double.


Phase one: federal authorization
The request is to be made to the Aliens Police in the municipality of residence. From there, it will then be sent to the Federal Department of Justice and Police, who will give a principle authorization if the following conditions are met:

    * You are integrated in the Swiss community.
    * You are accustomed to Swiss way of life and practices.
    * You comply with the Swiss legal system.
    * You in no way compromise the internal or external security of Switzerland.

Since Switzerland is a federal country, authorization must then be obtained from the canton and the municipality.

Phase two: cantonal and municipal decisions
The canton and municipality of residence can add further conditions and set the cost of acquiring citizenship before approving it. Conditions vary greatly from one region to the next. Some municipalities apply rather open policies, while others will go as far as granting nationality by means of a local population vote. Cost also varies according to municipality and canton.

Swiss nationality

[Plane]

Hogwash.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_pergdp-immigration-new-citizenships-per-gdp

I am not getting this one , Immagrants per billion of GDP?

What is the signifigance of this chart ?
That People come less to the US or that the US has more reserve to handle the influx?

[Plane]

Then there's this.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit-immigration-new-citizenships

That is a lot simpler the US is getting about four times the number of immagrants as the second place country and eight times as many as the third place .

None of these countrys offer the common man enough better of a deal to attract more than they loose?

[Plane]

Quote
Yea, those countries who don't have near the GDP we have

They don't have 300 million people. You did have to take math didn't you?

[][][][][][][]

Europe has more than 300 million and there are not nearly as many Americans attempting to become Europeans as there are Europeans wishing to become Americans.

Is there one, amoung these contries, that has more Americans wanting in ,than it has citizens of its own wanting to become Americans?

Meaningless. Americans in general aren't very migratory.

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

It would be meaningfull , if the why of it were considered.

If these programs work for a single generaton or even two that is not suffecint , if a uniersal health care system were to fail in the third or fourth generation it would be worse than if they had failed sooner, I am glad that the experiment is being made , but it strikes me as a case of a perpetual motion machine that surprises everyone when it runs down.

The UK has had the NHS since 1948. Next year will be its third generation.


[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

And yet , the number of Americans attempting to become British citizens is miniscule.

How pasing all the money through government beaurocrcys causes increased effeciencys mystifys me , I am a civil servant myself and when our chain of command wants to increase effeciency they attempt to emulate private enterprise.

Having worked in both it really doesn't surprise me.


[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


If you understand the reason that Government is presumed to be better , you are ahead of me . In my experience our effeciency as civil servants was enourmously boosted soon after President Reagan made privitazation a real threat to our job security . Now we have less institutional advantage we have to work as if we are really competeing.

[_JS]

No evidence yet?

Plane, do you have some evidence on why Europeans become citizens here? My mom, brother, and I are Europeans who became Americans (except my mom who is still a German citizen). I can go into quite a few reasons that I know, but that would be anecdotal and not statistical evidence. You have not proven causality yet. Are you honestly saying that Brits move here to escape the NHS?

Sirs? Anything yet?

You have both made a lot of claims, yet I've seen no evidence to back them up.

[sirs]

Sirs? Anything yet?  You have both made a lot of claims, yet I've seen no evidence to back them up.

I haven't had the time to just sit down and do the research.  Takes time Js.  Much more time than just making random responses, observations, and proclaimations.  Perhaps I'll have some tomorrow, if that works for you

[Plane]

No evidence yet?

Plane, do you have some evidence on why Europeans become citizens here? My mom, brother, and I are Europeans who became Americans (except my mom who is still a German citizen). I can go into quite a few reasons that I know, but that would be anecdotal and not statistical evidence. You have not proven causality yet. Are you honestly saying that Brits move here to escape the NHS?

Sirs? Anything yet?

You have both made a lot of claims, yet I've seen no evidence to back them up.

I will use you.


You could have stayed in Germany and not had to put up with the lousy conditions here.

You could also have looked at the Charts that Brassmak brought in. I thought them suffecient .



Of copurse you could pretend that there are really a lot of Americans frustrated by their inability to become French , but I seldom hear of them.


I consider it well established that the USA offers a better deal to thy common man than any European country .My personal experience haveing been there lead me to settle here , your personal experence haveing been both places is apparently not so diffrent .

Multiply us by the millions who can move and who choose to move and do or don't.

The causality has to be a better deal here , because a better deal there would reverse the trend.

[_JS]

I haven't had the time to just sit down and do the research.  Takes time Js.  Much more time than just making random responses, observations, and proclaimations.  Perhaps I'll have some tomorrow, if that works for you

I'll be here. Might I suggest not making such random responses and proclamations next time?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Of copurse you could pretend that there are really a lot of Americans frustrated by their inability to become French , but I seldom hear of them.


I consider it well established that the USA offers a better deal to thy common man than any European country .My personal experience haveing been there lead me to settle here , your personal experence haveing been both places is apparently not so diffrent .
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The French do not require anyone to 'become French'. They merely prefer that immigrants learn the language and accept the usual French ways of behaving in public. Other than not walking about in cowboy clothes, American Indian costumes, or packing sidearms, I can't think of any ways that a normal American would offend the French in any way.

Most Americans have no real problems with burkhas, headscarves, and religious ornamentation, after all, and that is what ticks the French off the most these days. I spent 16 days all around France and had a great time, and did not note any hostility to me at all, and my French is not that great.

Most Western Europeans do not even consider coming to the US seriously. Young university graduates frequently find the lack of well-paying jobs and a sense of adventure the main reason for wanting to work in the US. Those that get married to US citizens tend to stay, others just go home.

Mostly it is not the 'common man' that comes to the US: it is far more often university graduates, especially those with good skills in English that come here.