I wonder if it has occurred to anyone

[Universe Prince]

I used to get this kinda flak a few years ago
people screaming I got SARS and stuff
I`d just sneeze on them .

Good man.

[The_Professor]

Just for clarification, I did not voice this opinion. I retrieved it from www.pournelle.com. Some of it I do indeed agree with; most I do not. For example, one of the reasons our great nation is so propserous is the true benefits derived from immigrants, not only their labor but their culture.

Regardless, thorough debates on issues such as immigration and its effects, both for good or ill, should be encouraged and nurtured. Do you not agree?

[Plane]

Just for clarification, I did not voice this opinion. I retrieved it from www.pournelle.com. Some of it I do indeed agree with; most I do not. For example, one of the reasons our great nation is so propserous is the true benefits derived from immigrants, not only their labor but their culture.

Regardless, thorough debates on issues such as immigration and its effects, both for good or ill, should be encouraged and nurtured. Do you not agree?

     I was perplexed more by your reply #9 , but I am glad to see that you were just bringing it in for the discussion.

    Immagration can indeed be a conduit for disease , someday we might see something really serious and new circle the world on aircraft before we are hardly aware of it , something like what happened to us with AIDS , HIV but perhaps even worse .
    But this in not just a problem of immagration, but also one of tourism and business travel.

     The Red Cross didn't want my blood for a decade after I left Africa , but I did not feel discriminated against , some precautions are reasonable .

      The core of this discussion should be the diffrence between precautions that make sense and are reasonable and actions that are poor precautions , unreasonable , ineffective or perhaps unfair.

[Universe Prince]

Just for clarification, I did not voice this opinion. I retrieved it from www.pournelle.com. Some of it I do indeed agree with; most I do not.

Perhaps you should consider placing disclaimers like this up front.

Regardless, thorough debates on issues such as immigration and its effects, both for good or ill, should be encouraged and nurtured. Do you not agree?

Sure. But I don't see why we need to resort to posting racist and elitist excrement in the process.

[The_Professor]

You are attempting to set the terms for "racist", etc. Racism is derogatory comments, actions, words and so on against another race. To expand to include attitudes against another nationality, for example, is totally inaccurate and succumbs to the current political correctness in vogue today. This resetting of terminology, as is revisionist history, is continuing as the cultureal and political landscape is changing. This, however, does not means we have to "buy into" this transition.

I did not see anythnig racist in the post. I did see some concern by the author about the effects, primarily in the disease arena, of immigration. This concern coud also be phrased in a similar vein via Plane's example, or by you going out of the country, residing in anothger country for awhile and then returning back here. Same issue. Nothnig to do with racism.

An aspect I do agree with in the article is the concern of how illegal immigrants may be putting strains on the medical community. The issue, of course, is how do they pay for this so the strain is at least lessened. Maybe they can somehow be taxed?

[_JS]

You are attempting to set the terms for "racist", etc. Racism is derogatory comments, actions, words and so on against another race. To expand to include attitudes against another nationality, for example, is totally inaccurate and succumbs to the current political correctness in vogue today. This resetting of terminology, as is revisionist history, is continuing as the cultureal and political landscape is changing. This, however, does not means we have to "buy into" this transition.

Or, in this case making baseless accusations on others based entirely on the color of their skin and their national origin. It is still racism and not for one second do I believe that you don't wholeheartedly endorse the article you posted Professor. In fact, you still defend it. Once again we see someone hiding behind the skirt of "political correctness" - this mythical entity that supposedly keeps people from speaking what they really feel.

These Mexican immigrants are poor, uneducated, dark-skinned (they tend to face racism in Mexico too as with most Latin American countries where the lighter-skinned European/Spanish communities are far wealthier), speak Spanish, and mostly Catholic. The article is basically a standard extension of the "dirty Mexican" myth. It is no different than the garbage put out against the Roma people in European nations in the past. It is fear of difference, which is the essence of racism.

If you believe it, fine. But stop hiding behind "political correctness" or some other bull. Be honest and say you're a racist.

[Universe Prince]

You are attempting to set the terms for "racist", etc.

I attempted nothing of the sort. The author of the article, whoever that is, used the word racist, and in my reply I followed suit. If you have a problem with using the term racist in this context, take it up with wherever you got the article.

Racism is derogatory comments, actions, words and so on against another race. To expand to include attitudes against another nationality, for example, is totally inaccurate and succumbs to the current political correctness in vogue today. This resetting of terminology, as is revisionist history, is continuing as the cultureal and political landscape is changing. This, however, does not means we have to "buy into" this transition.

I'll be happy to call it xenophobia, irrational prejudice, or just plain bigotry if you prefer. Makes little difference to me what you want to call it. It's wrong and disgusting regardless of the name. To paraphrase Shakespeare, excrement by any other name would stink as much.

I did not see anythnig racist in the post. I did see some concern by the author about the effects, primarily in the disease arena, of immigration. This concern coud also be phrased in a similar vein via Plane's example, or by you going out of the country, residing in anothger country for awhile and then returning back here. Same issue. Nothnig to do with racism.

Xenophobia perhaps. The author of the article was trying to place the blame, as I said before, on the dirty Mexicans because they're dirty Mexicans. Not because we have some evidence that Mexican immigrants have something to do with it, but because there are Mexicans here and Mexicans are dirty, backward people. He wasn't talking about concern for the health of Mexican immigrants. He was trying to connect directly the health issues in the food supply to Mexicans, whom he apparently considered dirty, diseased people. And he apparently believes that the Mexicans, by virtue of the fact that they are here and not being run out of the country, are going to drag us all into Third World living conditions. Racism, xenophobia, bigotry, whatever you want to call it, it is not an expression of concern for the Mexicans.

An aspect I do agree with in the article is the concern of how illegal immigrants may be putting strains on the medical community. The issue, of course, is how do they pay for this so the strain is at least lessened. Maybe they can somehow be taxed?

The notion of immigrants putting a strain on the medical system is a bogus issue with little connection to reality. It is a convenient argument that helps make the immigrants into scapegoats for a problem that is no one's fault but our own. Every immigrant with a paycheck, whether they are here legally or not, is having his or her pay taxed. Every immigrant who buys food, clothing, cars, whatever from a retail establishment or the like is paying taxes. The notion that they all somehow escape paying taxes and get the benefits of our overbloated welfare and medical systems for nothing is either ignorant or scare-tactic propaganda, and therefore worthless. The problems with our medical system are of our own making, not theirs.

[Mucho]

This is wonderful. The Mexicans think WE are the infected ones and they are probly right.LMFAO

 


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lettuce12oct12,1,7518265.story?coll=la-headlines-business

Mexico's Ban on U.S. Lettuce Yields Anger
Trade groups protest the blocking of shipments after an E. coli-related recall by a Central California farm.
By Jerry Hirsch
Times Staff Writer

October 12, 2006

Farm interests from the Salinas Valley to Washington reacted angrily Wednesday to a ban on U.S. lettuce imports by Mexico.

"This is an outrageous step that has no basis at all in science or food safety," said Tom Stenzel, president of the United Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Assn. in Washington.

The Mexican Ministry of Health on Tuesday blocked U.S. lettuce after the voluntary recall two days earlier by a Central California farm of more than 8,500 cartons of green-leaf lettuce. Nunes Co. of Salinas had recalled the lettuce after discovering E. coli bacteria in irrigation water used on the crop.

Tests found that the contamination was a generic form of E. coli, which is common in water and soil around the world and generally not harmful to humans. A toxic strain of the bacteria had recently contaminated Salinas Valley spinach, sickening nearly 200 people and killing three. None of the recalled lettuce was headed for Mexico.

"The produce industry is being punished for being careful," Stenzel said.

Froylan Gracia, agricultural counselor at the Mexican Embassy in Washington, defended the ban, saying that "countries can take actions that they think safeguard the lives of their citizens even if it seems subjective."

He said regulators from both countries were working to resolve the issue.

But that was of little comfort to Salinas Valley farmers whose business is laboring to rebound from the spinach scare.

"Mexico has just added to our overall woes with consumer perception," said Bob Perkins, executive director of the Monterey County Farm Bureau.

The state's $250-million spinach business "remains really down," he said.

Perkins said growers were reporting that sales of other forms of bagged produce also had dipped, but he could not put a dollar figure on the decline.

If not for the potential effects on the buying habits of American shoppers, the lettuce ban itself should have little economic fallout.

Mexico is not a major buyer of U.S. lettuce, purchasing $8.3 million of the crop last year. California produces $1.7 billion of lettuce a year, with about $1 billion coming from Monterey County.

*

[kimba1]

it`s happened before
europe quite often reject u.s. meat
despite most cases of madcow happens outside of the u.s.

[Lanya]

Drpraved -- http://www.resist.com/other/border_patrol.swf

_________________________
That's pretty bad.  I would go with "DEPRAVED" as a description for that cartoon, or whatever it was supposed to be. 

[The_Professor]

Sorry, I misspelled it. :-)

[Lanya]

Sorry, I misspelled it. :-)

_________________
I don't care about the misspelling.  What interests me is if you do or do not agree with the views of the cartoon.   
What is "depraved"? 
The cartoon?
Or the people it depicts?

[The_Professor]

Depraved, the cartoon is.

See, this gets back to a problem in builidng a fence along the border.

People traffickers will find a way to get over/under/around it.Then, what are you left with? Shooting folks as they come across the border? We simply cannot do that. If we do this, we are the ones DEPRAVED. Where are we the nas a compassionate society?

We need to find a way to address this issue CONSTRUCTIVELY. I am not intelligenct enough to figure it out, maybre someone can. Maybe one of you?