XO why do you treat blacks different than others?

[Kramer]

Any photo can be icky. I didn't say it was racist, but it was deliberately made as some sort of reminder of minstrel shows, and they were once an institution of national Ickiness.

like I said you, the know-it-all, didn't know that the guy in the picture was black. I guess you aren't as smart as you think you are.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I did not identify the person in the photo as Black or White. I said the photo was icky,and it is.

[Kramer]

I did not identify the person in the photo as Black or White. I said the photo was icky,and it is.

icky,and

should be: icky, and

[sirs]

I'd like to know, if "ickiness" isn't racism, when was this era of "ickiness" ?  I don't recall "an institution of national Ickiness", in any of my history classes.  Was it only taught in Spanish classes

[Plane]

Any photo can be icky. I didn't say it was racist, but it was deliberately made as some sort of reminder of minstrel shows, and they were once an institution of national Ickiness.

   That is probly the problem, the discomfort caused by the makdeup is a legacy of history. Something equally unnatural but with a diffrent history might not cause such a strong and viceral responce.




Less Icky?


http://users.erols.com/irene/clown.htm http://www.splattered-paint.com/blog/page/2/  http://www.lynchs.com/

Of course some people just don't like clowns at all, I wonder if Bozo ever had his lawyer send a threatgram to Stephen King?

 Pennywise the Clown from Stephen King's It
http://lloydrobersondesignjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/clowns-in-pop-culture-9-30-09.html

Symbols can be quite strong , they are a sort of language and all of their power is in the understanding of them.

[Plane]

Any photo can be icky. I didn't say it was racist, but it was deliberately made as some sort of reminder of minstrel shows, and they were once an institution of national Ickiness.

like I said you, the know-it-all, didn't know that the guy in the picture was black. I guess you aren't as smart as you think you are.

  Yes but the guy in the picture is making a joke of a joke. The concept is a joke on the very Ickyness XO is speaking of it isn't merely incongruous it is painfull.

Those two pictures are of a whiteman in blackface and a blackman in blackface , wasn't XO put off by both of them?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Circus clowns are supposed to be funny. I do not find their appearance to be very funny personally, but most clown are not icky.

White men, black men, Chinese or anyone else in blackface is rather icky in my opinion.

[Kramer]

Circus clowns are supposed to be funny. I do not find their appearance to be very funny personally, but most clown are not icky.

White men, black men, Chinese or anyone else in blackface is rather icky in my opinion.

when a man uses the term icky it comes off kinda girlie, if you get my drift.

[Plane]

Circus clowns are supposed to be funny. I do not find their appearance to be very funny personally, but most clown are not icky.

White men, black men, Chinese or anyone else in blackface is rather icky in my opinion.

Minstrals are supposed to be funny too.

Whiteface is equally artificial, but less weighted with malace and ill history.

There isn't any other reason that blackface clowning is unpopular , it is the legacy.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Burning crosses also could be a celebration, like Burning Man, but for the unfortunate historical traditions associated with the act.
It came from a scene in Ivanhoe, by Sir Walter Scott,in which the cross on the steeple of a burning Presbyterian Church was described during the times of Bloody Mary.

[Plane]

  I have read Ivanhoe , but I failed to make that connection.


    Hmmmm... Ivanhoe used to be very popular in this region , but that was a few generations back.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Ivanhoe is about the mostly Presbyterian Scots being forced by the English to accept Catholicism under Queen Mary. There is a scene in which a church is burned, and the burning cross on the steeple is mentioned.

When they were not pretending to be Greeks in their architecture, the Southern aristocracy thought of themselves as the proud rural Scots, being cruelly betrayed by the more technically advanced English. Note that the Stars and Bars Confederate flag (a blue and white X on a red field) is a modified cross of St. Andrew (a blue X on a white field).

All of Sir Walter Scott's works were very popular in the Old South, among those what could read.

Note that many US presidents with clearly English and British names are listed as "Scots English"and "Scots Irish".

One might also note that many of the greatest Scottish patriots (like William Wallace) were commoners,and that Scotland was absorbed into England by political marriages and turncoat Scottish aristocrats who were bribed by the English.

[Plane]

Ivanhoe is about the mostly Presbyterian Scots being forced by the English to accept Catholicism under Queen Mary. There is a scene in which a church is burned, and the burning cross on the steeple is mentioned.

  I must have read a diffrent Ivanhoe , in the one I remember Knights Templar are misbehaveing and Saxons are resentfull of lordly Normans.

Jews also featured.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It seems that it MAY have been in Scott's novels, but it was an old Scottish custom.
I found this in Wikipedia.


The Fiery cross is the English language term for a piece of wood, such as a baton, that North Europeans, e.g. Scotsmen and Scandinavians, used to send to rally people for things (assemblies) for defence or rebellion (if beacons were not appropriate).
[edit] Scotland

In Scotland the "fiery cross", known as the Crann Tara was used as a declaration of war, which required all clan members to rally to the defence of the area. It is important to note that in Scotland it has absolutely no racist connotations. The practice is described in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott. A small burning cross or charred piece of wood would be carried from town to town. The most recent known use there was in 1745, during the Jacobite Rising. Crann Tàra – “The gathering beam, a signal formally used on occasion of insult or impending danger, to summon a clan to arms. It was a piece of wood, half burnt and dipped in blood, in token of the revenge by fire and sword awaiting those clansmen who did not immediately answer the summons. It was passed from one permanently appointed messenger to another, and in this manner the alarm was spread across the largest districts in an incredibly short time. In 1745 the crann tàra traversed the wide district of Breadalbane, upwards of 30 miles in three hours.” (Dwelly, E. 1973: 264). [1], the best part of a century before the foundation of the KKK. Although many of the members of the KKK were descended from immigrants from Scotland, there is no evidence to suggest that their ancestors brought this tradition with them to America. The name Crann Tara was used for a Scottish Gaelic current affairs programme on Grampian Television (ITV).

A similar practice existed in the Isle of Man.

The most recent use of the Fiery Cross in Scotland was not during the Forty-Five. In 1820 over 800 fighting men of Clan Grant was gathered, by the passing of the Fiery Cross, to come to the aid of their Clan Lord and his sister in the village of Elgin. See http://www.clangrant-us.org/history.htm

[Plane]

  I never thought about the crossburning as an anchient custom , I thought it to be recent.

   Thanks.