Author Topic: Obama throws Israel under the Bus  (Read 128215 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Henny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1075
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #375 on: June 01, 2011, 10:58:02 AM »
Henny....do you not understand....this is war.
Like General Sherman in the US Civil War said..."war is hell"
There are two sides to every war....
Either side can surrender at any time....
The American Indian..finally gave up..& we now sit on & control the once disputed land
Most people in the world sit on land today that was once controlled by someone else
Israel has possession and control of the disputed land
Your side wants the land and control
Israel does not want to give up the land or control
It's happened a milllion times throughout human history
And will continue to happen
We don't need to visit to see how bad it is....
We already know "war is hell"
If I were Israel I would not give a single inch to anyone
whose stated goal is Israel's destruction....that would be defined as INSANITY.

You are right. It still sucks. And it has gone on for so terribly long.

I also understand now why BSB and others have asked BT to delete them from the group and block them. I keep walking away, practically screaming, and then coming back in a few days later to see the responses that I know will upset me because they are so horribly misguided, skewed and misinformed.  :-\
This is a joke? No?
That's what political discourse is......whats the point if everyone agrees?
You want people deleted (silenced) because you consider them "horribly misguided"?
You "walk away screaming mad" because there is a different opinion?
You get upset because in your opinion someone is "misinformed"?
You pretend we must visit to "really understand".
I don't have to jump off the Empire State Building to "really understand" how bad it would be.
Our opinions are of less value because we are Americans in the US?
But Iranian opinion is somehow more valued?


First, I meant people asking to have themselves deleted - not anyone else! I find that I know why people have asked to have themselves deleted so as to remove the temptation to return for more. And I make that statement out of frustration alone.

And I maintain that the US news is so terribly skewed that most of you do not really see how it really is. The Iranian news is more accurate, although even most Middle Eastern countries do not care to hear their opinions regardless.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #376 on: June 01, 2011, 11:13:12 AM »
It is utterly absurd to tell Henny she does not understand the situation. She understands it better than you ever could. She lives there: half the people in Jordan are Palestinians.

The map is ridiculous.

There could also be a map of your neighborhood showing the house of some crook surrounded by the property of honest homeowners. It would hardly be understood by sane people  that the crook was being falsely accused, merely because he controlled so little and others so much.

Only poor Bernie Madoff was thrown in prison out of THOUSANDS of hedge fund managers!

This is not a war in any traditional sense. It is an illegal occupation of lands seized by conquest in violation of the UN Charter, the same organization that created Israel in the first place.

Jews were not deprived of their country in 130 CE by Arabs or Palestinians. They were driven out by the Romans when they were on the losing side of the Bar Kokhba insurrection. The Jews that reclaim Palestine are certainly NOT the same people who were driven away, and many, if not most, are not even the descendants of those people.

Israel was created out of the guilt of the Western powers that refused admittance to the Jews murdered by the Nazis in the Holocaust. It was not created to be an armed camp and local bully that gradually would expand and seize land from their neighbors.

There must be a mutually agreed on settlement and an end to all aggression. There can be no secure borders, the borders of Israel are not secure now. No borders in that area can be secure. With drone aircraft and other technologically advanced weapons, no country on this planet can have secure borders. Secure borders are only something people can dream about, like smurfs and unicorns.

Netanyahu wants security, give the fool a Linus blanket.

 Security will come when there is an agreement where the borders are and how passage can be permitted across those borders, just as France, Germany, Italy, Austria and Liechtenstein all agree on the borders of Switzerland.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 11:26:38 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #377 on: June 01, 2011, 11:48:56 AM »
Sweet cartoons..........if only they were true      :-\

They are true to the people living there. This is their life, not yours. You've never even set foot in the region, so I beg to differ with your perception of "true" based on the U.S. media.

Sorry, but it's not based soley on "U.S. media".  If it were, I'd have a much closer view to yours.  The point is however your take on it being "true to the people living there".  Meaning, the propaganda is working, and made more so by your continued non-support of even the smallest starting block to peace, that of the public recognition of Israel's right to exist

If that is indeed how the people there "feel", you reinforce the tragic conclusion, that there'll be no peace.  and no, I never claimed them to be "kids' cartoons".  If this is indeed "art", I'm afriad it belongs right up there with urine used on a Christ painting and a dung covered Virgin Mary 


BTW, GREAT Map C    8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #378 on: June 01, 2011, 01:16:29 PM »
Yes lets all listen to XO pontificate about the horrors of "stolen land"
while he himself sits, lives, works, and enjoys life on "stolen land"!

Oh my but the stolen land XO sits on was before the UN
so that makes it all ok and better.....i feel so warm and fuzzy!
ya see I am guilt free becuzzz my horror happened before any UN!
Ha Ha Ha......

Yasssir boss dat be it....and it makes a wholes lots of logical sense!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #379 on: June 01, 2011, 02:52:25 PM »
Yes lets all listen to XO pontificate about the horrors of "stolen land"
while he himself sits, lives, works, and enjoys life on "stolen land"!

When Obama gives California back to Mexico, supported by the likes of Xo and others, THEN they'll have a credible leg to stand on, when it comes to demanding that Isreal give back these supposed "stolen lands"

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #380 on: June 01, 2011, 02:56:03 PM »
I wonder if some Palestinians view Israeli settlers in the West Bank the same way some Californians view illegal Mexicans.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #381 on: June 01, 2011, 03:01:46 PM »
Naaa, i think, from the jist of the cartoons, and other commentary, that Palestinians see Israel is evil, racist, murderous, thugs, bent on the destruction of Palestinians, especially children blowing bubbles

Your POV also requires that the Israeli settlers are illegally settling on Israeli land
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #382 on: June 01, 2011, 03:41:48 PM »
I wonder if some Palestinians view Israeli settlers in the West Bank the same
way some Californians view illegal Mexicans.

Lemme know when Californians or their supporters advocate
targeting for violence/ murder innocent women and children.



Iran cleric: Killing Israeli children OK

Radical religious cleric known as President Ahmadinejad's spiritual mentor
says attacks on Israeli civilians permissible, suicide bombings a Muslim duty.

05.31.11, 02:09 / Israel News 

A senior Iranian cleric, who is known as President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's spiritual mentor,
urged followers to continue suicide attacks against Israelis, including children

Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah, considered one of the Islamic Republic's most radical
clerics, issued a religious edict on his website whereby suicide attacks are not only legitimate
but are a must for every Muslim, a special paper by the Middle East Media Research Institute shows.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4076176,00.html
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #383 on: June 01, 2011, 03:59:09 PM »
Here's a few very simple questions, that require very little rationalizations on how evil Israel is supposed to be:

Were Arab nations prepositioning to attack Israel, in the summer of 1967?   (BEFORE any lands were "stolen"?)

Who currently "owns/in charge of" the West Bank?

Who currently "owns/in charge of" the Golan Heights?
---------------------------------------------------
And on a semi-related note

Who currently "owns/in charge of" California?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 04:28:10 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #384 on: June 01, 2011, 04:55:29 PM »
What some Iranian said is irrelevant to the illegal occupation of Palestine by the Israelis.  The PLO did not announce that killing of children was a policy. This is a stupid remark, much like "Christians" regular expressions of his desire to nuke Iran and kill everyone possible.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #385 on: June 01, 2011, 05:09:04 PM »
The legality of the settlements in the West Bank is under dispute, the International Community and the UN say they are illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #386 on: June 01, 2011, 05:26:25 PM »
Why am I not surprised my rather simple questions have not been addressed?  So apparently California's status is under review as well, I should assume
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #387 on: June 01, 2011, 06:01:54 PM »
California is US territory by virtue of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Can you tell me the name of equivalent treaty for the West Bank?

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #388 on: June 01, 2011, 06:28:26 PM »
CA is virtue of U.S territory by means of having "stolen" it, from Mexico, by means of military confrontation.  CA is far more Mexico's than the West Bank is to the Palestinians.  In fact, the West Bank was Jordan's, before Jordan ATTACKED Israel.  So, why isn't the UN claiming that Israel needs to give the land back to Jordan??

Point being, that the lands were no more stolen than what CA did to Mexico.  So, the "dispute" in question is largely the UN's say so, right?  And given their current level of credibility, I'd say Israel has every possible leg to stand on, when it comes to maintaining control of those "disputed" territories
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #389 on: June 01, 2011, 06:32:22 PM »
This is a stupid remark, much like "Christians" regular expressions of his desire to nuke Iran
and kill everyone possible.

what is stupid.....is you lying again or mis-repesenting my position
i have repeatedly said i would use tactical nuclear weapons on military targets in Iran
but using nukes would almost surely not even be needed
I have not advocated "killing everyone possible" in Iran
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987