Atheists flying ad campaign having problems getting off the ground

[Xavier_Onassis]

The Church has often stymied science. Stem cell research is a good example of what is happening recently. It is pretty clear that the Church is pretty ignorant of how stem cell research works. The church also restricts research in ways that are never publicized, such as when the scientist's wife is a believer who would make his life miserable of he were to cross the church.



And Kramer, whether God exists is hardly a matter decided by a majority. There was a time when the entire human population believed the Earth to be flat and the best recipe for meat was to eat it raw. Majorities are often wrong.

There are far more atheists than 1% and many more agnostics than that.  And I did not say I did not believe in a higher power, I said that I do not see adequate proof or disproof to conclude that God exists it does not exist. "Higher power" is not the same thing as God. A "higher power" would not necessarily be a creator or Jesus' father, or anyone described in the Bible.

I don't expect that your mind could comprehend the subtleties involved here.

[Kramer]

lets try a differing question,is there examples of religion that has stopped science?

I remember a book written that was approved by the vatican which was stated as the only reference to human anatomy and it stopped research for decades maybe even over a century.

pretty sure stemcell research has been greatly effected by religion.

Religion is religion. People are people. People do what they do. A book, or shall I say the Qur'an or Bible are filled with worlds and some people twist them, use them, distort them and basically use them for an agenda. Some people are bad and do bad things, most people are good. Don't blame the Muslim Religion for what some Muslim terrorists do. Don't blame Christians for what wrongs some do. It's easy to do that; just look at Democrats that throw rocks through their headquarters windows so they can claim to be victims of Republicans. People do what people do. And good people do good things and bad people do bad things. You will find that more money and support went into Japan after the disaster from faith-based people verses Atheists, Period!

[Xavier_Onassis]

According to the Christian religion, most people are NOT good. ALL people are sinful to the degree that only because God is incredibly merciful will the poor wretches be admitted to heaven.

This whole discussion started off with the question , "Will banners and skywriting on July 4th convince an appreciable number of people to admit they are Atheists?", and as I said, I do not think so.

I don't think that there is any competition between atheists and believers. The Atheists that wish to advertise Atheism with airplane signs seem to believe otherwise, but I do not.

We will always have religions and religious people, just as we will have nonbelievers and non religious people and agnostics. The percentages may change over the years, but no group will ever reach even 90%.

As for charity, whether to donate or not is a personal, not a group, decision.

[kimba1]

japan is kicking everybodies ass right now. the people will find intact items and leave them for the owners to reclaims later on. the yakuza  has greatly been helping people there.
this is not a asian trait,it`s wholely japanese . incredibly humbling.

[Plane]

For all we know, some protein is reproducing itself for the first time NOW.

When it can be replicated in the lab, I am sure that the "There had to be a God to create it all" types will not be impressed, but I'd say it is only a matter of time before they can do this in the lab.

It is far, far more likely than an eternal being or one that creates himself out of nothing.

Now you are speaking of your own faith, I was asking about your logic.

[kimba1]

I just want my borg implant so I don`t need to surf the web with any external hardware. but we barely have any thought control tech now. I wonder if the devices in tekwars is viable?

I thought we`re supposed to get wearable computers by now(jetpack not included).

[Plane]

lets try a differing question,is there examples of religion that has stopped science?

I remember a book written that was approved by the vatican which was stated as the only reference to human anatomy and it stopped research for decades maybe even over a century.

pretty sure stemcell research has been greatly effected by religion.

Lets mention an occasion in which Religion failed to moderate science.
http://isurvived.org/drMengele.html

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
So states the Hippocratic Oath, sworn by all doctors throughout the world. However, during World War II, one doctor would forsake this oath and bring about unprecedented.......

......
youth, Josef dreamt of leaving Gunzburg and pursuing a career in science. Making no secret of his ambitions, Josef once boasted - somewhat prophetically - that his name would one day appear in the encyclopedia. Despite his father's wishes for him to join the family business, in 1930 Josef gained entry to the University of Munich, in the Bavarian capital. It is possible that none of this would have mattered to history had Munich not been a hotbed of political intrigue, and the heart of the increasingly popular National Socialist German Workers Party under a political revolutionary named Adolf Hitler.
.........

Warning: Once again, this section contains details of Mengele's time at the Auschwitz extermination camp that readers will find disturbing and unsettling.

The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery.....


ETC...

  In religious terms Josef Mingle was a monster, not just in Christian terms , I don't know about a religion that would like him.

    But in purely logical and scientific terms can you make any case against him?

   Remember only logic or science counts.


      I wonder what O'l J.M. would have done with modern cloneing tech or stem cells?

[kimba1]

I need to apologize, I try very hard to get both sides of an issue. but on this matter I unfairly only brought up one side. thanks plane for pointing out the other side. sometimes science needs a conscience and religion can be a benefit for it.


j.m. is a excellent example. but I would agree to take his notes so none of his experiments need to be recreated unless truely needed.

[Xavier_Onassis]

But in purely logical and scientific terms can you make any case against him?

   Remember only logic or science counts.

==========================================
If you read of some of his "experiments" you will find that some of them were simply cruel and served no scientific purpose.
His experiments with twin children were, as I recall, quite evil.

[kimba1]

the twin experiment is what I remember about him also.

you would think with all that pain he inflicted he would of pioneer  some pain management techniques.

maybe he`s not that great a researcher after all.

[kimba1]

I think seem to remember It was only over a decade ago modern medicine acknowledge that severe pain hinderd the healing process, it took this long because certain old thinking are very hard to let go. like  surgeans not sleeping for over 24 hrs are allowed to operate on patients.

[Plane]

But in purely logical and scientific terms can you make any case against him?

   Remember only logic or science counts.

==========================================
If you read of some of his "experiments" you will find that some of them were simply cruel and served no scientific purpose.
His experiments with twin children were, as I recall, quite evil.

I will accept this if you can provide the scientific definition of "evil".

[kimba1]

hmm-evil

I guess the unpopular concept would be a it`s a subjective term,to make it objective would be abit more complex to define.

if we lost the war at WW2 I guess we would be the evil ones

[Plane]

I need to apologize, I try very hard to get both sides of an issue. but on this matter I unfairly only brought up one side. thanks plane for pointing out the other side. sometimes science needs a conscience and religion can be a benefit for it.


j.m. is a excellent example. but I would agree to take his notes so none of his experiments need to be recreated unless truely needed.

Thank you, but I don't think you need apologise, makeing a point one side at a time seems alright to me. Try too hard to be evenhanded andy you wind up cancelling your own stastements.

I think it is valid to complain about misused religion, it isn't better to misuse religion than it is to misuse science.

[Kramer]

hmm-evil

I guess the unpopular concept would be a it`s a subjective term,to make it objective would be abit more complex to define.

if we lost the war at WW2 I guess we would be the evil ones

if we lost the war at WW2 I guess we would be the evil ones

So the good guys would have been the Nazis that killed 6 million Jews? When the Jews lost against the Nazis were they the evil ones?