Author Topic: Olbermann  (Read 4879 times)

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hnumpah

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Olbermann
« on: January 13, 2007, 06:16:12 AM »
Thursday, 1/11:

And lastly, as promised, a Special Comment about the President's address last night.

Only this President, only in this time, only with this dangerous, even Messianic certitude, could answer a country demanding an exit strategy from Iraq by offering an entrance strategy for Iran.

Only this President could look out over a vista of 3,008 dead and 22,834 wounded in Iraq and finally say, "where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me" — only to follow that by
proposing to repeat the identical mistake in Iran.

Only this President could extol the "thoughtful recommendations of the Iraq Study Group" and then take its most far-sighted recommendation — "engage Syria and Iran" - and transform it into "threaten Syria and Iran", when Al-Qaeda would like nothing better than for us to threaten Syria, and when President Ahmmadinejad would like nothing better than to be threatened by us.

This is diplomacy by skimming; it is internationalism by drawing pictures of Superman in the margins of the text books; it is a presidency of Cliff Notes.

And to Iran and Syria — and, yes, also to the insurgents in Iraq — we must look like a country, run by the equivalent of the drunken pest, who gets battered to the floor of the saloon by one punch, then staggers to his feet, and shouts at the other guy's friends, "ok, which one of you is next?"

Mr. Bush, the question is no longer "what are you thinking?", but rather, "are you thinking at all?"

"I have made it clear to the Prime Minister and Iraq's other leaders that America's commitment is not open-ended," you said last night.

And yet, without any authorization from the public who spoke so loudly and clearly to you in November's elections, without any consultation with a Congress in which key members of your own party like Senator Brownback and Senator Coleman and Senator Hagel are fleeing for higher ground, without any awareness that you are doing exactly the opposite of what Baker-Hamilton urged you to do, you seem to be ready to make an open-ended commitment - on America's behalf -
to do whatever you want, in Iran.

Our military, Mr. Bush, is already stretched so thin by this bogus adventure in Iraq that even a majority of serving personnel are willing to tell pollsters that they are dissatisfied with your
prosecution of the war. It is so weary that many of the troops you have just consigned to Iraq will be on their second tours, or their third tours, or their fourth tours — and now you're going to make
them take on Iran and Syria as well?

Who is left to go and fight, sir?

Who are you going to send to "interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria" – Laura and Barney?

The line is from the movie "Chinatown", and I quote it often. "Middle of a drought," the mortician chuckles, "and the water commissioner drowns. Only in L.A.!"

Middle of a debate over the lives and deaths of another 21,500 of our citizens in Iraq … and the President wants to saddle up against Iran and Syria.

Maybe that's the point: to shift the attention away from just how absurd and childish is this latest war strategy – strategy, that is, for the war already under way, and not the one on deck.

We are to put 17,500 more troops into Baghdad and 4,000 more into Anbar Province - to give the Iraqi government "breathing space."

In and of itself, that is an awful and insulting term.

The lives of 21,500 more Americans endangered, to give "breathing space" to a government that just turned the first and perhaps the most sober act of any democracy — the capital punishment of an ousted dictator — into a vengeance lynching so barbaric, and so lacking in the solemnities necessary for credible authority, that it might have offended the Ku Klux Klan of the 19th Century.

And what will our men and women in Iraq do? The ones who will truly live — and die — during what Mr. Bush said last night will be a "year ahead" which "will demand more patience, sacrifice, and resolve"?

They will try to seal up Sadr City and other parts of Baghdad in which the civil war is worst.

Mr. Bush did not mention that while our people are trying to do that, the factions in the civil war will no longer have to focus on killing each other but rather, they can focus anew on killing our people.
Because last night the President foolishly all but announced that we will be sending these 21,500 poor souls over, but no more after that — and if the whole thing fizzles out, we're going home.

The plan fails militarily.

The plan fails symbolically.

The plan fails politically.

Most importantly, perhaps, Mr. Bush, the plan fails because it still depends on your credibility.

You speak of mistakes, and of the responsibility "resting" with you. But you do not admit to making those mistakes. And you offer us nothing to justify this clenched fist towards Iran and Syria.

In fact, when you briefed news correspondents off-the-record before the speech, they were told, once again, "if you knew what we knew … if you saw what we saw …"

"If you knew what we knew" was how we got into this morass in Iraq in the first place. The problem arose when it turned out that the question wasn't whether or not we knew what you knew, but whether you knew what you knew.

You, sir, have become the President who cried wolf.

All that you say about Iraq now could be gospel. All that you say about Iran and Syria now could be prescient and essential. We no longer have a clue, sir. We have heard too many stories.

Many of us are as inclined to believe you just shuffled the Director of National Intelligence over to the State Department because he thought you were wrong about Iran.

Many of us are as inclined to believe you just put a pilot in charge of ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because he would be truly useful in an air war next door in Iran.

Your assurances, sir, and your demands that we trust you, have lost all shape and texture. They are now merely fertilizer for conspiracy theories.

They are now fertilizer indeed.

The pile has been built slowly and with seeming care.

I read this list last night, before the President's speech, and it bears repetition, because its shape and texture are perceptible only in such a context:

Before Mr. Bush was elected, he said nation-building was wrong for America. Now he says it is vital. He said he would never put U.S. troops under foreign control. Last night he promised to embed them in Iraqi units.

He told us about WMD. Mobile labs. Secret sources. Aluminum tubes. Yellow-cake.

He has told us the war is necessary because Saddam was a material threat. Because of 9/11. Because of Osama Bin Laden. Al-Qaeda. Terrorism in general. To liberate Iraq. To spread freedom. To spread democracy. To prevent terrorism by gas price increases. Because this was a guy who tried to kill his Dad.

Because 439 words into the speech last night, he trotted out 9/11 again.

In advocating and prosecuting this war, he passed on a chance to get Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. To get Muqtada Al-Sadr. To get Bin Laden. He sent in fewer troops than the Generals told him to. He ordered the Iraqi army disbanded and the Iraqi government "de-Baathified." He short-changed Iraqi training. He neglected to plan for widespread looting. He did not anticipate sectarian violence. He sent in troops without life-saving equipment. Gave jobs to foreign contractors, and not Iraqis. He staffed U.S. positions there based on partisanship, not professionalism.

He and his government told us "America had prevailed", "Mission Accomplished", the resistance was in its "last throes". He has insisted more troops were not necessary. He has now insisted more
troops are necessary. He has insisted it's up to the generals, and then removed some of the generals who said more troops would not be necessary.

He has trumpeted the turning points: the fall of Baghdad; the death of Uday and Qusay; the capture of Saddam; a provisional government; a charter; a constitution; the trial of Saddam; elections; purple fingers; another government; the death of Saddam.

He has assured us we would be greeted as liberators with flowers; as they stood up, we would stand down. We would stay the course; we were never about "stay the course." We would never have to go door-to-door in Baghdad. And last night, that to gain Iraqis' trust, we would go
door-to-door in Baghdad.

He told us the enemy was Al-Qaeda, foreign fighters, terrorists, Baathists, and now Iran and Syria.

The war would pay for itself. It would cost 1.7 billion dollars. 100 billion. 400 billion. Half a trillion. Last night's speech alone cost another six billion.

And after all of that, now it is his credibility versus that of generals, diplomats, allies, Democrats, Republicans, the Iraq Study Group, past presidents, voters last November, and the majority of the
American people.

Oh, and one more to add, tonight: Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Mr. Bush, this is madness.

You have lost the military.

You have lost the Congress to the Democrats.

You have lost most of the Iraqis.

You have lost many of the Republicans.

You have lost our allies.

You are losing the credibility, not just of your Presidency, but more importantly of the office itself.

And most imperatively, you are guaranteeing that more American troops will be losing their lives, and more families their loved ones. You are guaranteeing it!

This becomes your legacy, sir: how many of those you addressed last night as your "fellow citizens" have you just sent to their deaths?

And for what, Mr. Bush?

So the next President has to pull the survivors out of Iraq instead of you?

Good night and good luck.
=====================

I like the way this guy rants.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Michael Tee

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 07:10:52 AM »
Holy fucking shit.

He nailed it. And nailed it.  And nailed it.

Why is the "President's" speech on every front page but not Olbermann's?

I stand in awe.

sirs

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 10:35:28 AM »
Why is the "President's" speech on every front page but not Olbermann's?

Because the latter's a rant-filled idiot?  That would be a start
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2007, 01:11:17 PM »
Well, that "rant-filled idiot" sure stripped your "President" down to nothing in every way possible.  I just meant that I wished every idiot who was suckered in by their "President's" speech could read Olbermann's.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 01:36:03 PM »
Because the latter's a rant-filled idiot?  That would be a start


=================================================
Unfortunately, everything that said "rant-filled idiot" is precisely TRUE.

I defy you to say that which is not true.

Bush screwed up worse than any other US president has ever screwed up

And all he proposes is more waste of money, more waste of lives, more of the same moronic crap.

The Iraq Study Group was supposed to come up with a solution, but this imbecile ignored nearly all of what they said.

Go on, let's give him his Mighty Surge, his Dien Bien Phu.

The only bad thing is that when his magnificent plan is shot down, twisting and spewing fire and smoke, he will not be in the cockpit for the crash.

Another Goddamned Vietnam, the futile war his cowardice and his father's influence prevented him from fighting.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2007, 02:00:56 PM »
Olbermann is very glib but seem unaware of it when he becomes repiditive.

Many of the points he rings up depend on accepting his point of view unproven , so his rant is exactly what the chior wants to  hear , without being convinceing to the sceptic.

Quote
"...a country demanding an exit strategy from Iraq by offering an entrance strategy for Iran."

I am glad to learn that the recent election which changed the majority in congress and senate was not a rebuke to corupt members but was strictly the political statement that Olberman wanted to hear.

Quote
Who is left to go and fight, sir?   

About Six times the force that fought in Bosnia , notincludeing the force that is proectin Germany ad apan from the threat of Sviet invaion.

There is certainly ot the number needed to enforce the peace in such a large territory , but here are the smaller number needed to wreck the potential threat.

Quote
Only this President could extol the "thoughtful recommendations of the Iraq Study Group" and then take its most far-sighted recommendation — "engage Syria and Iran" - and transform it into "threaten Syria and Iran", when Al-Qaeda would like nothing better than for us to threaten Syria, and when President Ahmmadinejad would like nothing better than to be threatened by us.

The reason that Syria and Iran cant be ignored is that they are actively  preventing peace in Iraq ,the reason that  we should be talkng to them politely is that they are responsible for America death. Why should it be supposed that these tyrants will toerate a healty democracy next door if we speak sweetly to them?

Michael Tee

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 04:08:39 PM »
<<The reason that Syria and Iran cant be ignored is that they are actively  preventing peace in Iraq ,the reason that  we should be talkng to them politely is that they are responsible for America death. Why should it be supposed that these tyrants will toerate a healty democracy next door if we speak sweetly to them? >>

I have to agree with plane on this last point.  There is nothing the U.S. can offer either Syria or Iran that would interest them in cooperating in the rape of their neighbour.  The one thing the U.S might be able to offer - - leaning on Israel to restore Syrian lands and provide some measure of justice to Palestinian aspirations for a viable homeland on the West Bank - - is a non-starter because of the hold that the Zionist lobby (AIPAC et al.) has on the two major parties.

sirs

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2007, 04:25:44 PM »
Unfortunately, everything that said "rant-filled idiot" is precisely TRUE.

LOL...in your blantantly like-minded  irrational opinion. perhaps

 

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2007, 05:01:55 PM »
What IS NOT true that he said, Slurs? You have nothing to say, apparently.

Which is not unusual at all.

Everything he said is entirely true.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2007, 05:38:22 PM »
What IS NOT true that he said, Slurs? You have nothing to say, apparently.
 

Perhaps, if you ask more civil, I'll endeavor to answer your query.  Until then, your rhetoric is equally as ranting & irrational as Tee's I Olbermann's
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2007, 03:00:19 AM »
What IS NOT true that he said, Slurs? You have nothing to say, apparently.

Which is not unusual at all.

Everything he said is entirely true.



So when he says this;

Quote
  He has assured us we would be greeted as liberators with flowers; as they stood up, we would stand down. We would stay the course; we were never about "stay the course." We would never have to go door-to-door in Baghdad. And last night, that to gain Iraqis' trust, we would go
door-to-door in Baghdad.


You know the exact quotes he is talking about ?

I don't think that the President assured anyone any of these things.


hnumpah

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2007, 04:45:06 AM »
Quote
Perhaps, if you ask more civil...

Gasp!!!!!!!

This, from Sirs...?

After he calls Olbermann 'a rant-filled idiot', without offering to rebut anything Olbermann said?

After he accuses X of having a 'blantantly like-minded  irrational opinion'?

Tsk...


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Plane

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2007, 05:06:24 AM »
Quote
Perhaps, if you ask more civil...

Gasp!!!!!!!

This, from Sirs...?

After he calls Olbermann 'a rant-filled idiot', without offering to rebut anything Olbermann said?

After he accuses X of having a 'blantantly like-minded  irrational opinion'?

Tsk...




So do you remembr when it was that the President promised us a rose garden?

Michael Tee

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 08:05:28 AM »
<<You know the exact quotes he is talking about ?

<<I don't think that the President assured anyone any of these things.>>

Oh, PLEASE.   He presided over an administration that assured you of every one of those things.


hnumpah

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Re: Olbermann
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 12:10:29 PM »
Quote
So do you remembr when it was that the President promised us a rose garden?

Which has what to do with the uncivil lout Sirs demanding civility from others?

You must be getting old for your memory to be failing you so badly. Every one of the things Olbermann mentioned has been trumpeted by members of Bush's cabal at one time or another during the war or the run up to it. They have been discussed in here endlessly as well. You know that, or should, unless you suffer from some form of Alheimer's or something that prevents you from recalling these discussions in the past, or the many times these quotes have been pointed out to you and others. I suspect that demanding a rehash of the sources every time they come up is some form of denial for you.

I have one word for you if you persist:

G-O-O-G-L-E.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016