Author Topic: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.  (Read 4375 times)

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Mucho

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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-dems14jan14,0,7973832.story?coll=la-home-headlines
Democrats feel free to defy Bush on Iraq
Once-skittish party leaders are joining antiwar liberals in opposing a buildup.
By Noam N. Levey
Times Staff Writer

January 14, 2007

WASHINGTON — Emboldened by President Bush's deeply unpopular proposal to send more troops to Iraq, congressional Democrats are shedding their wariness about tackling the war and embracing positions once primarily held by the party's most liberal fringe.

Less than two weeks after taking power, party leaders who had promised just an increase in oversight hearings on the war are now talking openly about cutting off funds for additional military operations.

Centrist Democrats are lining up beside longtime antiwar liberals, promising to do everything in their power to stop the president's plans to deploy an additional 21,500 troops in Baghdad and Al Anbar province.

And the war's most passionate opponents in the House, whose last meeting before the midterm election was relegated to a basement room, met last week in one of the grandest rooms on Capitol Hill and drew scores of supporters, television cameras and journalists.

"Ours is now the mainstream position," said Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Petaluma), who two years ago saw her resolution calling for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq crushed on the House floor. Today, the congressional Out of Iraq Caucus co-founded by Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) has more than 80 members.

Congressional Democrats, suddenly united in their desire to pass resolutions against the escalation, still face challenges in deciding how far to go in what could become a historic showdown between two branches of government over the course of a war. And any move to cut funding may quickly reveal fissures in the Democratic caucus.

The threat to cut off funds for more troops drew a rebuke Saturday from President Bush, who challenged war critics to offer their own plan for Iraq.

"Those who refuse to give this plan a chance to work have an obligation to offer an alternative that has a better chance for success," he said in his weekly radio address. "To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible."

The Democrats' rapid embrace of what were once minority positions capped an extraordinary week on Capitol Hill as Congress stirred after years of standing by a wartime president.

"It was a wild and woolly week," said Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank).

Schiff was one of more than two dozen members of Congress who went to the House floor to condemn the war Thursday. Just one Republican rose to challenge them.

Democrats, who campaigned against the war, seized majorities in the House and Senate last fall largely because of unhappiness with the president's policies.

But when the Democrats returned to Capitol Hill this month, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) and other senior party leaders had planned to focus on a purely domestic agenda.

They cautiously avoided talk of cutting funding or other measures to compel Bush to change course in Iraq. As recently as Monday, Pelosi had refused to discuss possible legislation to limit an escalation in Iraq.

But the next day, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), in a speech laced with references to the mistakes of Vietnam, announced his intention to introduce a bill that would require the president to seek congressional approval for any troop increase in Iraq.

Within hours, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said he would introduce a resolution the following week condemning any White House plans to send additional troops. Pelosi's office quickly announced that House Democrats would do the same.

By the time Bush addressed the nation Wednesday night, congressional Democrats across the ideological spectrum were rallying to oppose the president.

"We have to take a stand…. We have to do everything we can," said Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D-Alamo), a centrist Democrat who said she wanted to sign on to the House version of Kennedy's bill, which is sponsored by one of her chamber's most liberal members.

Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.), a decorated Vietnam veteran and longtime military supporter, said Friday that he would use his position as chairman of the House appropriations panel's defense subcommittee to try to block funding for any troop increase in Iraq.

Murtha said he also wanted to force the closure of the controversial military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and put limits on how long military service members could be deployed.

A Pelosi spokesman said the speaker had encouraged Murtha to explore the funding limitations.

The same day, in a mark of how much has changed in Washington, House Republican leaders held a sober meeting to air complaints from their members about the president's plans.

"It was not a typical conference," said Rep. Adam H. Putnam (R-Fla.), choosing his words carefully. Putnam is the No. 3 leader in a caucus that until recently rarely showed public signs of dissent.

By contrast, Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) have urged House Democrats to be aggressive in exploring legislative options for winding down the war, Rep. Stephen F. Lynch (D-Mass.) said.

Some Democrats remain wary of moving too quickly to try to cut funding, and it was unclear whether they could succeed.

Reid must contend with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who has said he will try to block a resolution, forcing Democrats to get 60 votes. The Democratic caucus has 51 members.

Rep. David R. Obey (D-Wis.), a fierce war critic who chairs the House Appropriations Committee, said Friday that, because of the complexity of the defense budget, he doubted that Congress would be able to find a way to selectively prohibit spending for a troop buildup.

"I don't know how the hell you do it," Obey said, pointing to the tortuous efforts by Congress two decades ago to limit funding for military operations in Central America.

Bush has signaled that he would not be deterred by congressional opposition. "I made my decision. We're going forward," Bush said in an interview with "60 Minutes" to be broadcast tonight.

But today, the president no longer can count on a Congress of Republicans who are unwavering in their loyalty and Democrats who are cowed by the fear of being labeled weak on defense.

And public support for the president and the war has plummeted. Some polling shows dissatisfaction with Bush's plans has reached 70%.

"The public is so disillusioned," Democratic strategist Mark Mellman said, "that we've gotten to the point where people think the war has actually made us less safe."

And that has made it increasingly safe for Democrats to challenge the White House.

"There definitely is a feeling of liberation," said Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), a staunch war opponent who was in Congress when it last put limits on an unpopular war more than 30 years ago.

"The question now is not if, but how, we get out of Iraq and when. The whole nature of the debate has changed."

noam.levey@latimes.com


   

BT

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2007, 12:54:51 PM »
First comes the rhetoric.

When comes the action?

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2007, 01:12:20 PM »
First comes the rhetoric.

When comes the action?


It is coming my hopeless friend. I know you think defunding will hurt US but you were wrong about WMD's, ties to Al Queda and bringing democracy to the mid east and you are wrong about this because the overwhelming majority of the US people oppose the Iraq war now and will never go back.

BT

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2007, 01:16:12 PM »
Quote
It is coming my hopeless friend.

Hopefully it won't take too long.

Your side is not known for its patience.

Lanya is willing to give them a week.

Hope that is enough time.

Otherwise your party will suffer dire consequences.

or so i am told.


Plane

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2007, 01:32:48 PM »
Quote
In his radio address, Mr Bush challenged Congress to come up with a better plan than his, in which the Iraqi security forces are meant to take the lead in tackling the conflict.

"Our brave troops should not have to wonder if their leaders in Washington will give them what they need," he said. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6259903.stm


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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2007, 01:56:10 PM »
Quote
It is coming my hopeless friend.

Hopefully it won't take too long.

Your side is not known for its patience.

Lanya is willing to give them a week.

Hope that is enough time.

Otherwise your party will suffer dire consequences.

or so i am told.



You are told wrong. The next election isnt for two more years. Bush could be impeached in much less time than that.

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2007, 01:57:41 PM »
Quote
In his radio address, Mr Bush challenged Congress to come up with a better plan than his, in which the Iraqi security forces are meant to take the lead in tackling the conflict.

"Our brave troops should not have to wonder if their leaders in Washington will give them what they need," he said. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6259903.stm


Any plan would be better than his , none of which have worked.
 Onc again he is hiding behind the troops like the coward he is.

Plane

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2007, 02:08:23 PM »
Quote
In his radio address, Mr Bush challenged Congress to come up with a better plan than his, in which the Iraqi security forces are meant to take the lead in tackling the conflict.

"Our brave troops should not have to wonder if their leaders in Washington will give them what they need," he said. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6259903.stm


Any plan would be better than his , none of which have worked.
 Onc again he is hiding behind the troops like the coward he is.

So why is itso hard to propose a plan?

Michael Tee

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2007, 02:12:41 PM »
<<"Those who refuse to give this plan a chance to work have an obligation to offer an alternative that has a better chance for success," he [Bush] said in his weekly radio address. "To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible.">>

What a crock.  How about proposing this:  immediate compliance with the Charter of the United Nations by pulling out all troops, period.  THAT'S success.  Abiding by the law, minding your own business, allowing other nations to work out their own destiny and solve their own problems without your self-appointed "leadership."  Oh, yeah, and leaving them in control of their own natural resources.  That also is "success."          

BT

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2007, 02:16:08 PM »
Quote
You are told wrong. The next election isnt for two more years. Bush could be impeached in much less time than that.

So you deem Lanya's and  Brass's or elses as nothing more than empty threats?


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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2007, 02:19:03 PM »
Quote
You are told wrong. The next election isnt for two more years. Bush could be impeached in much less time than that.

So you deem Lanya's and  Brass's or elses as nothing more than empty threats?



I am sure you are mis-stating what they said like you always do. Besides, nothing can happen for two more years even if you are pissed. You cant impeach all 600 of them but you can impeach one Pres.

Plane

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2007, 02:19:47 PM »
<<"Those who refuse to give this plan a chance to work have an obligation to offer an alternative that has a better chance for success," he [Bush] said in his weekly radio address. "To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible.">>

What a crock.  How about proposing this:  immediate compliance with the Charter of the United Nations by pulling out all troops, period.  THAT'S success.  Abiding by the law, minding your own business, allowing other nations to work out their own destiny and solve their own problems without your self-appointed "leadership."  Oh, yeah, and leaving them in control of their own natural resources.  That also is "success."          


You would favor this course even if you could know that massacres worse then the killing fields of Cambodia would result?

President Ford and the Congress couldn't guess that Cambodia would become another Holocaust , so there is some excuse.


Do we have this excuse?  Can anything other than atrocious massacre occur if we withdraw so fast we knock the props out from the elected government of Iraq?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 02:28:23 PM by Plane »

Plane

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2007, 02:21:09 PM »
Quote
You are told wrong. The next election isnt for two more years. Bush could be impeached in much less time than that.

So you deem Lanya's and  Brass's or elses as nothing more than empty threats?



I am sure you are mis-stating what they said like you always do. Besides, nothing can happen for two more years even if you are pissed. You cant impeach all 600 of them but you can impeach one Pres.


Hahahahahahahahaha

Go for it!

Mucho

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 02:26:36 PM »
Quote
You are told wrong. The next election isnt for two more years. Bush could be impeached in much less time than that.

So you deem Lanya's and  Brass's or elses as nothing more than empty threats?



I am sure you are mis-stating what they said like you always do. Besides, nothing can happen for two more years even if you are pissed. You cant impeach all 600 of them but you can impeach one Pres.


Hahahahahahahahaha

Go for it!

Actually, the way things are doing, we just might. This sounds like your BushFuehrer saying "bring it on" to the insurgents which is what they did and won.

Plane

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Re: My, my- The gutless Dems seem to be miraculously growing intestines.
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 02:28:56 PM »
Quote
You are told wrong. The next election isnt for two more years. Bush could be impeached in much less time than that.

So you deem Lanya's and  Brass's or elses as nothing more than empty threats?



I am sure you are mis-stating what they said like you always do. Besides, nothing can happen for two more years even if you are pissed. You cant impeach all 600 of them but you can impeach one Pres.


Hahahahahahahahaha

Go for it!

Actually, the way things are doing, we just might. This sounds like your BushFuehrer saying "bring it on" to the insurgents which is what they did and won.
What have they won?