Author Topic: Ice (cold) Tea  (Read 8752 times)

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Kramer

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 12:25:52 AM »
   Tasking the Government with being your brothers keeper is not being compassionate.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of compassion exhibited by those who would approve and laugh at the idea of letting a 30 year old man in a coma die simply because he had no insurance.

So laughing means approval. I laugh at Obama on a daily basis and I assure you that I don't approve of 98% of what he does or says.

Plane

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 12:35:28 AM »
   Tasking the Government with being your brothers keeper is not being compassionate.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of compassion exhibited by those who would approve and laugh at the idea of letting a 30 year old man in a coma die simply because he had no insurance.

So compassion is exhibited by using force on every 30 year old to ensure that their care in coma is paid by insurance?
If I felt very deep compassion for you could I demonstrate it by making all of your choices for you?
A compassionate person might chip in voluntarily to support any sort of cause that excites his compassion.

But calling someone compassionate , who is willing to use force to contribute YOUR money deserves a little bit of laughter.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 01:22:28 AM »
The fact is that under the ACA (known to the reactionaries as "obamacare"), this person is required to buy insurance or he pays a fine. If he has insurance, he is covered. If not, and he goes to the ER, the money from the fine pays at least something.

As it stands now, with no changes in the law, he goes to the ER, and the hospital sends him a bill. If he does not pay that bill, the public that supports the hospital must collect the amount he has incurred from the public.



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R.R.

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2011, 04:01:48 AM »
Oh my God, XO is actually making an argument in favor of the $4 to 6 trillion ObamaCare.

The fact is, this is a state issue and shouldn't have been mandated by Obama. It would have been far cheaper to allow for the purchase of more reasonable insurance across state lines for this fictional 30 year old that one smartass liberal plant may or may not have laughed at in a debate audience.

hnumpah

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 11:02:37 AM »
'Let Them Die' -- Latest Tea Party Slogan?
By Saul Relative | Yahoo! Contributor Network ? Wed, Sep 14, 2011

COMMENTARY | Did someone actually yell "Let them die!" at the CNN/Tea Party Express Republican Presidential Debate on Monday evening when Texas Congressman Ron Paul was asked the hypothetical question of whether or not he would treat an uninsured individual who needed immediate medical attention?


And were there shouts of encouragement and clapping and cheering as well? The answer to both questions is in the affirmative. Given that the debate was co-sponsored by the Tea Party Express and that the audience was predominantly filled with tea party members whose adherence to personal responsibility -- including the decision to have medical insurance -- is a core tenet of the movement, the outburst has focused the attention of the public on the seeming lack of compassion displayed by the tea party itself. Some might ask: Has the tea party gone from "Live Free Or Die" to "Let Them Die"?

The tea party has been beleaguered since it began to nationally organize in 2009 with the general perception that it was a bastion of conservative ethnocentric racist lunatic fringers. It also seemed to draw from the far right of the Republican Party that openly shouted racial slurs and hateful slogans about liberals, then-Sen. Barack Obama and their ties with socialism at McCain-Palin rallies in the ramp-up to the 2008 general election.


But since its acceptance as a legitimate political movement after the Republican takeover of the House of Representatives following the 2010 midterm elections, it has managed to keep much of the generalizing and stereotyping at bay, although the adherence to strict and intransigent political positioning during the summer debate over raising the debt ceiling (the tea party position was to get spending cuts only to combat the federal fiscal budgetary issues and not raise the debt ceiling at all) cost the movement some popularity points in the polls.

Still, incidents such as the one in Tampa at the debate do not do much to further disseminate the message of individual liberty, less government, less regulation, and less taxation.

They display a callous disregard for humanity at such moments that then reflects poorly on the movement as a whole, reinforcing the stereotypes and generalizations already prevalent the tea party consists of disgruntled, self-important, self-interested, ethnocentric anti-nihilists that have theirs, will protect what is theirs at all costs, and will deny passionately that society or "others" had anything to do with their success or social positioning.

For his part and to his credit, Rep. Ron Paul immediately answered Wolf Blitzer's question with a resounding, "No!" It was nearly drowned out by the "Let them die!" comment and the subsequent round of encouragement the outburst received. Paul, who is often considered the father or godfather of the tea party movement (but, surprisingly, has little support within the present organization), had already explained his position on personal responsibility and choice and the government's role in individual matters should be severely limited, including concerns dealing with health care and individual insurance coverage.


Paul, who was once a physician, noted society often took care of those who could not support themselves via charities and religious support organizations.

"No," Paul replied to Blitzer's question that "society should just let them die." He explained, "I practiced medicine before we had Medicaid, in the early 1960s when I got out of medical school. I practiced at Santa Rosa Hospital in San Antonio. And the churches took care of them. We never turned anybody away from the hospitals. And we've given up on this whole concept that we might take care of ourselves and assume responsibility for ourselves, our neighbors, our friends; our churches would do it. This whole idea - that's the reason the cost is so high. The cost is so high because we dump it on the government. It becomes a bureaucracy. It becomes special interests. It kowtows to the insurance companies, then the drug companies."

Agree or disagree with Paul, it could be argued a little more reasonably stated solutions and a lot fewer inhumane and insensitive remarks could go a long way in rectifying the tea party's reputation as heartless movement that finds some within the American populace expendable.

http://news.yahoo.com/let-them-die-latest-tea-party-slogan-223700849.html
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Kramer

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 11:13:41 AM »
'Let Them Die' -- Latest Tea Party Slogan?
By Saul Relative | Yahoo! Contributor Network ? Wed, Sep 14, 2011

COMMENTARY | Did someone actually yell "Let them die!" at the CNN/Tea Party Express Republican Presidential Debate on Monday evening when Texas Congressman Ron Paul was asked the hypothetical question of whether or not he would treat an uninsured individual who needed immediate medical attention?


And were there shouts of encouragement and clapping and cheering as well? The answer to both questions is in the affirmative. Given that the debate was co-sponsored by the Tea Party Express and that the audience was predominantly filled with tea party members whose adherence to personal responsibility -- including the decision to have medical insurance -- is a core tenet of the movement, the outburst has focused the attention of the public on the seeming lack of compassion displayed by the tea party itself. Some might ask: Has the tea party gone from "Live Free Or Die" to "Let Them Die"?

The tea party has been beleaguered since it began to nationally organize in 2009 with the general perception that it was a bastion of conservative ethnocentric racist lunatic fringers. It also seemed to draw from the far right of the Republican Party that openly shouted racial slurs and hateful slogans about liberals, then-Sen. Barack Obama and their ties with socialism at McCain-Palin rallies in the ramp-up to the 2008 general election.


But since its acceptance as a legitimate political movement after the Republican takeover of the House of Representatives following the 2010 midterm elections, it has managed to keep much of the generalizing and stereotyping at bay, although the adherence to strict and intransigent political positioning during the summer debate over raising the debt ceiling (the tea party position was to get spending cuts only to combat the federal fiscal budgetary issues and not raise the debt ceiling at all) cost the movement some popularity points in the polls.

Still, incidents such as the one in Tampa at the debate do not do much to further disseminate the message of individual liberty, less government, less regulation, and less taxation.

They display a callous disregard for humanity at such moments that then reflects poorly on the movement as a whole, reinforcing the stereotypes and generalizations already prevalent the tea party consists of disgruntled, self-important, self-interested, ethnocentric anti-nihilists that have theirs, will protect what is theirs at all costs, and will deny passionately that society or "others" had anything to do with their success or social positioning.

For his part and to his credit, Rep. Ron Paul immediately answered Wolf Blitzer's question with a resounding, "No!" It was nearly drowned out by the "Let them die!" comment and the subsequent round of encouragement the outburst received. Paul, who is often considered the father or godfather of the tea party movement (but, surprisingly, has little support within the present organization), had already explained his position on personal responsibility and choice and the government's role in individual matters should be severely limited, including concerns dealing with health care and individual insurance coverage.


Paul, who was once a physician, noted society often took care of those who could not support themselves via charities and religious support organizations.

"No," Paul replied to Blitzer's question that "society should just let them die." He explained, "I practiced medicine before we had Medicaid, in the early 1960s when I got out of medical school. I practiced at Santa Rosa Hospital in San Antonio. And the churches took care of them. We never turned anybody away from the hospitals. And we've given up on this whole concept that we might take care of ourselves and assume responsibility for ourselves, our neighbors, our friends; our churches would do it. This whole idea - that's the reason the cost is so high. The cost is so high because we dump it on the government. It becomes a bureaucracy. It becomes special interests. It kowtows to the insurance companies, then the drug companies."

Agree or disagree with Paul, it could be argued a little more reasonably stated solutions and a lot fewer inhumane and insensitive remarks could go a long way in rectifying the tea party's reputation as heartless movement that finds some within the American populace expendable.

http://news.yahoo.com/let-them-die-latest-tea-party-slogan-223700849.html

Why allow ourselves to get distracted with this nonsense? If this bothers you as much as it appears then go vote for Obama. I can't and don't want to control others and they are responsible for their actions. My response to this is simply a yawn.

BT

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2011, 04:18:12 PM »
Three people at most voiced the opinion that the 30 year old should die. That does not a movement make. Most objective people realize that. What it does make, is an opportunity for those who live to smear groups that think differently than them,  to do just that. Giving non objective people fodder for their prejudices.

Saul Relative should know this. It happened to his people. What people? The Jews. Most people i know named Saul are Jewish. Ergo...

Kramer

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »
Three people at most voiced the opinion that the 30 year old should die. That does not a movement make. Most objective people realize that. What it does make, is an opportunity for those who live to smear groups that think differently than them,  to do just that. Giving non objective people fodder for their prejudices.

Saul Relative should know this. It happened to his people. What people? The Jews. Most people i know named Saul are Jewish. Ergo...

Good point. Just because one rogue Indian murdered & scalped an innocent settler family doesn't make all Indians bad people.

Amianthus

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2011, 05:30:05 PM »
Good point. Just because one rogue Indian murdered & scalped an innocent settler family doesn't make all Indians bad people.

You know the Indians learned that whole scalping thing from the French, right?
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sirs

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2011, 06:00:00 PM »
So, per the parameters established by H, the entire French population is all bad?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2011, 07:26:50 PM »
So compassion is exhibited by using force on every 30 year old to ensure that their care in coma is paid by insurance?
If I felt very deep compassion for you could I demonstrate it by making all of your choices for you?
A compassionate person might chip in voluntarily to support any sort of cause that excites his compassion.

But calling someone compassionate , who is willing to use force to contribute YOUR money deserves a little bit of laughter.

Show me, please, where I have said anywhere that people should be 'forced' to be compassionate 'by having their money taken from them'. Where?

I worked part time and volunteer as an emergency medical technican for over 25 years, up until 1999. In all that time, at all the wrecks, heart attacks, diving accidents, and every other call I worked, I never once asked a patient if they had insurance. The biggest reason, for me, is that in an emergency situation my priority is to take care patient, to ease their pain and sometimes save their lives, whether they are rich or poor, able to pay or not. A secondary reason is that, in every state that I know of, emergency care cannot be refused because a patient can't pay, and as an emt or paramedic at the scene with a patient, you are not even allowed to ask if they have insurance before you begin treatment.

Now read the second article I posted, the opinion piece. Even it does not call for taxpayers to pay for the care of the indigent and uninsured; it does make the point that the Tea Party has gained a reputation as having "a callous disregard for humanity at such moments that then reflects poorly on the movement as a whole, reinforcing the stereotypes and generalizations already prevalent the tea party consists of disgruntled, self-important, self-interested, ethnocentric anti-nihilists that have theirs, will protect what is theirs at all costs, and will deny passionately that society or "others" had anything to do with their success or social positioning". It also makes the point that, in the past, chuches and other social groups have donated to the cost of care for the indigent and uninsured.

So where the hell do you get off preaching to me about advocating taking money out of your pocket to take care of the uninsured?

So, per the parameters established by H, the entire French population is all bad?


I don't particularly care for the French, but for other reasons than the one mentioned.
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Kramer

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2011, 07:27:45 PM »
Good point. Just because one rogue Indian murdered & scalped an innocent settler family doesn't make all Indians bad people.

You know the Indians learned that whole scalping thing from the French, right?

The Scythians & Visigoths started the practice before France was a nation too!

I still eat french fries and french toast. We shouldn't blame France because some Canadian trappers from France taught the Indians how to scalp, nor should we blame the Indians because a few Engines went rogue with their new terror weapon. Let's just blame GW Bush and be done with it!

kimba1

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2011, 11:56:22 PM »
I don`t care for the french for other reasons too. they got food just as gross as chinese food but they get the best rep. But now that rep is hurting them. in most outing  people will rarely think of going to a french restaurant to eat.

sirs

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2011, 11:57:25 PM »
So, per the parameters established by H, the entire French population is all bad?


I don't particularly care for the French, but for other reasons than the one mentioned.

Point being, they pretty much all/nearly all must be bad.  I'm guessing that there were for more than 3 that took part in said scalping, and apparently that's all that's needed to paintbrush an entire group/movement........per H's parameters it would seem, at least
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Kramer

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Re: Ice (cold) Tea
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2011, 12:24:03 AM »
So, per the parameters established by H, the entire French population is all bad?


I don't particularly care for the French, but for other reasons than the one mentioned.

Point being, they pretty much all/nearly all must be bad.  I'm guessing that there were for more than 3 that took part in said scalping, and apparently that's all that's needed to paintbrush an entire group/movement........per H's parameters it would seem, at least

in essence you are saying H scalped the Tea Party. I doubt they are having any of that. They should circle the wagons and kill them Engines with their repeater rifles.