Author Topic: An evil war  (Read 4761 times)

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hnumpah

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An evil war
« on: January 17, 2007, 11:24:11 AM »
An Evil War - by Charley Reese

Fellow columnist Molly Ivins has launched a crusade of sorts to end what she calls "this evil war."

I'm afraid that columnists, other than having the ability to occasionally embarrass a politician who still has a conscience, are pretty much without influence in the corridors of Washington. There, the lobbyist and his money get the attention.

Nevertheless, it won't hurt to enlist in Miss Molly's crusade. It is definitely an evil war. Let's go over some of the reasons it deserves that adjective.

One, it is a war of aggression. Iraq had not attacked us, had not threatened to attack us and lacked the capability to attack us. Iraq had no connection with al-Qaeda. Saddam Hussein's Baathist government was a secular government. Al-Qaeda is a religious – or at least a pseudo-religious – organization. Osama bin Laden despised Saddam Hussein, who in turn despised him. Finally, Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with the attack on the World Trade Center. There was, morally, no difference between our invasion of Iraq and Hitler's invasion of Poland.

Two, it was a war sold to the American public on false pretenses. Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction. In case you have a short memory, that was the justification for the war right up to the day of the invasion. The Bush administration would have you believe that everybody thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. That is a lie. The U.N. inspectors didn't think he did. Scott Ritter, a former arms inspector, didn't think he did. For what it's worth, I didn't think he did, and several of our European allies had extreme doubts on the matter. Saddam Hussein had complied or was in the process of complying with all U.N. resolutions.

But weapons of mass destruction weren't the only deception practiced on the American people. Defense officials said U.S. troops would be greeted with sweets and flowers (they were greeted with bullets instead). Defense officials said the war would pay for itself with Iraqi oil revenues (the cost is now approaching half a trillion of our dollars). Civilian defense officials, scoffing at professional advice, said the war could be fought with very few troops. Soldiers were told that it would be a short war. Remember the phrase "The way home leads through Baghdad''?

Three, it was a bungled war. There were enough troops to defeat Saddam's dilapidated and technologically inferior army, but not enough to provide security for the country. The orgy of looting, while American troops stood by and watched, was the first step toward a disastrous occupation.

The occupation itself has been a tragic farce. Political cronies and even the sons and daughters of rich donors staffed the occupational government. Lucrative contracts were handed out without bidding. Corruption is rampant. All the Baathists who could run the government were fired. Some 400,000 soldiers were fired and found themselves with no income and lost pensions. One CIA man supposedly said, "Now you've (expletive) 400,000 men, and they have guns."

More than 3,000 Americans have died since George Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" during that photo stunt aboard an aircraft carrier. The Iraqi people are clearly worse off now than they were under Saddam Hussein, who, after all, only killed his political enemies, and only when they rebelled. Now, no Iraqi feels safe.

George Bush launched that evil war ignorant of Iraq, ignorant of the Middle East and ignorant of military strategy. He has no exit strategy. He can't even define what we would consider a victory. If Bush is sane, then he's dullest blade in the Bush family kitchen.

Those are harsh words, but not nearly as harsh as the consequences of his evil war for America and the American people.



January 16, 2007
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese335.html
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Michael Tee

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2007, 10:01:51 PM »
As I've said in other posts, the time for castigating Bush and his administration is long gone.  Only a handful of die-hards still refuses to believe he lied or started a war without just cause, and they are impervious to fact and reason.  They make up their own facts as they go along.  They throw up a thousand irrelevancies and call it counter-argument.

At this point in time, the real bad guys are on the Democratic side of the aisle.  They are the ones who can pull the plug on this criminal misadventure and begin the impeachment process now, and they just don't have the fucking guts.  The only difference between the failed Bush gang and the failed Nazi regime is that Bush and his cronies won't even lose a token handful to the gallows.  They'll slink off to the sidelines and die rich and old in their beds, just like most of the Nazis.  And meantime the Democrats have taken over the reins of power and the slaughter and the waste continue unabated.

domer

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 10:17:43 PM »
I can't take you seriously Tee, now and most of the time.

Michael Tee

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 12:31:24 AM »
<<I can't take you seriously Tee, now and most of the time.>>

I was going to come up with something really sarcastic, domer. but I didn't.

You should take me seriously, domer.  I'm the most serious person in this fucking group and it's only your loss if you don't. 

Plane

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 01:40:50 AM »
There has to be some evil or there wouldn't be a War.


But in this situation Saddam was not the good guy .

Al Queda ?, no ,not the good guys.

The Insurgents who kill for the sake of the advertiseing?

American Soldiers are there for the sake of Iraqs future , so are all of the bad guys.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 10:14:57 AM »
American Soldiers are there for the sake of Iraqs future , so are all of the bad guys.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeez, you actually believe this horsecrap, don't you?

American soldiers are there so ExxonMobil can sell gasoline at a high profit for many more years. They are there because it makes Israel feel more secure as they build their walls and nibble away at new colonies in Palestine.

The bad guys are there because they are Iraqis. It is their home.  They do not actually see themselves as bad guys. Like Pat Robertson, they believe that the are doing God's work.

The future of Iraq is not going to be made by American soldiers, who do not speak Iraqi Arabic, know next to nothing about Iraqi culture, and stay less than a year. Their only power is to kill, maim, wound, torture Iraqis, and perhaps give them a dangerous, high paying temporary job as soldiers or policemen.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

hnumpah

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 12:41:52 PM »
Quote
But in this situation Saddam was not the good guy .

Al Queda ?, no ,not the good guys.

The Insurgents who kill for the sake of the advertiseing?

American Soldiers are there for the sake of Iraqs future , so are all of the bad guys.

You still haven't quite grasped the truth yet. Saddam may not have been a good guy, but it was not our place to invade his country and remove him from power and totally screw up Iraq in the process. That, like our own American revolution, should have been left up to the people who actually live there. It is not our job to police the world and try to impose our will on everyone who disagrees with us.

Al Quaeda - well, hey, if we had continued chasing them down and eradicating them in Afghanistan and Pakistan, rather than concentrating on a failed attempt to make over Iraq, we'd have been a helluva lot better off.

The insurgents wouldn't exist if we had not given them reason to.

Our troops are the good guys; however, their commander-in-chief is an idiot. The reason why they are there has changed so many times, about the only real reason you can give for why they are there is because they were ordered to go.
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Mucho

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2007, 12:50:35 PM »
You know that the Bushidiot is in trouble when even the simplistic and gullible Libertarians figure out that this war is evil.

Michael Tee

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2007, 01:06:08 PM »
WOW, well said, XO and hnumpah.  Not a word I can add.

BT

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2007, 01:16:23 PM »
Quote
Our troops are the good guys;

Why are our troops the good guys. Are they not the ones executing evil policy?

hnumpah

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2007, 01:38:51 PM »
Quote
Are they not the ones executing evil policy?

They are doing their duty, as they see it.

When members of the military are sworn in, they swear to obey all lawful orders from their superiors. That their superiors (in this case, the administration) rigged the evidence to provoke the war in Iraq made it appear to most at the time that the invasion of Iraq was in our best interest, to prevent a future attack or acts of terrorism on us.

'Lawful orders' is a murky area. Anyone who refuses to obey an order he feels is unlawful risks court martial and, possibly, execution for refusing to obey. Few people are willing to take this risk alone, though some members of the military have refused to go to Iraq or have deserted because of their belief that the invasion of Iraq and the war there are illegal. One who is about to go on trial is 1LT Ehren Watada from Hawaii; one of the military judges has just ruled that he cannot use the defense that the war is illegal because that is a 'political' decision.

It's not hard to see why most of the troops just go along and hope for the best. It doesn't make them evil, or even bad people.
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BT

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2007, 01:51:02 PM »
Quote
It doesn't make them evil, or even bad people.

So if doing the right thing is hard, you get a pass?

hnumpah

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2007, 02:11:22 PM »
Quote
It doesn't make them evil, or even bad people.

Quote
So if doing the right thing is hard, you get a pass?

Did we prosecute individual soldiers who followed the generally recognized rules of war in WWII? No, we prosecuted the soldiers, commanders and leaders who committed what were considered war crimes.

As far as I can tell, no governing or judicial body or international tribunal has determined that this is an illegal war...yet. That may be determined later on. If so, I would expect those who ordered it and (mis)led the nation into it to be prosecuted, as well as any others who may commit war crimes. The rest will have to live with whether they actually believed they were doing the right thing, or whether they knew better and were just afraid to say no.
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BT

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2007, 06:33:49 PM »
Quote
As far as I can tell, no governing or judicial body or international tribunal has determined that this is an illegal war...yet.

There is illegal and then there is evil. Charlie and apparently others seem to think this war is evil.

My question , rephrased, remains the same. If it is hard not to do evil, do the soldiers get a pass?

Michael Tee

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Re: An evil war
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2007, 07:13:44 PM »
<<If it is hard not to do evil, do the soldiers get a pass?>>

Yeah, sure, I'll tell the Iraqi Resistance not to lay out any more IEDs for them.

They get a pass from anyone who thinks its perfectly OK for them to be thousands of miles from home amongst people whose language they don't speak, whose culture they don't share, whose religion they don't respect, killing, burning, blasting, torturing and raping.  From the actual victims, no, they don't get a pass.  They get the IED.