Former Soviet Citizen in Dust Up with the Useful Idiots of OWS

[Religious Dick]

Former Soviet Citizen in Dust Up with the Useful Idiots of OWS

[Kramer]

the protesters are punks that should have their asses kicked.

[Michael Tee]

What can I tell ya?  The ex-Soviet citizen is a fucking idiot who doesn't know WTF he's talking about.  If communism is so bad how come he didn't go back when it was overthrown and capitalism re-established?  Since capitalism was re-established in Russia, the only thing that went up was the crime rate; life expectancy has gone down, employment is down, education is down and the whole country is fucked.  Fucked because it returned to capitalism. 

Not only is the guy a fucking idiot, but OWS was easily able to rebut every moronic claim that he made.  GREAT tape, let's see more of them!!!  Capitalism is failing everywhere we look and this fucking idiot is still singing its praises.  Unbelievable.

[Kramer]

What can I tell ya?  The ex-Soviet citizen is a fucking idiot who doesn't know WTF he's talking about.  If communism is so bad how come he didn't go back when it was overthrown and capitalism re-established?  Since capitalism was re-established in Russia, the only thing that went up was the crime rate; life expectancy has gone down, employment is down, education is down and the whole country is fucked.  Fucked because it returned to capitalism. 

Not only is the guy a fucking idiot, but OWS was easily able to rebut every moronic claim that he made.  GREAT tape, let's see more of them!!!  Capitalism is failing everywhere we look and this fucking idiot is still singing its praises.  Unbelievable.

Did you ever stop and consider this:

 
The corrupt Communists just became corrupt Capitalists.

So even if things changed here likely the corrupt Capitalists would become corrupt Communists.

[Plane]

They could have remained corrupt Communists and the world would still be on a trajectory twards the inevitable victory of the proletariat.

[Michael Tee]

<<Did you ever stop and consider this:

 
<<The corrupt Communists just became corrupt Capitalists.

<<So even if things changed here likely the corrupt Capitalists would become corrupt Communists.>>

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that there was no change of management, just that the old bosses gave themselves new names.

So if there was no real change at the top, how come the change (according to you, in name only) was followed by skyrocketing crime rates, unemployment, homelessness and juvenile delinquency and a plummeting life expectancy declining faster than anywhere else in the world?

Also if your theory is correct, would it not indicate that corrupt leaders prefer to operate under capitalist conditions rather than communist conditions, since they can rip off and exploit people easier under capitalism than they can under communism?

[Kramer]

<<Did you ever stop and consider this:

 
<<The corrupt Communists just became corrupt Capitalists.

<<So even if things changed here likely the corrupt Capitalists would become corrupt Communists.>>

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that there was no change of management, just that the old bosses gave themselves new names.

So if there was no real change at the top, how come the change (according to you, in name only) was followed by skyrocketing crime rates, unemployment, homelessness and juvenile delinquency and a plummeting life expectancy declining faster than anywhere else in the world?

Also if your theory is correct, would it not indicate that corrupt leaders prefer to operate under capitalist conditions rather than communist conditions, since they can rip off and exploit people easier under capitalism than they can under communism?

Much of it had to do with the fact that the USSR was decimated and basically starting from scratch (1989) because the empire became bankrupt. So the people 'commies' running the show (prior to 1989) basically divided everything up (after pretending to drop the communism theme) that was of any value and the poor people at the bottom during communism remained at the bottom after the fall and are pretty much still at the bottom (today) and the country is pretty much the same shit-hole it's been since the early 20th Century. The bottom line is Russians suck, Russia sucks, and compared to the USA they really suck, and will always suck but now they are sorta but not really free to suck because in reality not much has changed in Russia the past 100 years no matter what form of government they call themselves.

[Michael Tee]

So, if I understand Kramer's theory correctly, Russia is fucked because the Russian people suck, so it doesn't really matter what system they live under, they'll be fucked anyway because they suck.

Using the same logic, since the American people DON'T suck, it also shouldn't matter which system they live under, since they'll do well under either one because they don't suck.

Also I have a bit of a problem making sense out of this statement of yours:

<<So the people 'commies' running the show (prior to 1989) basically divided everything up (after pretending to drop the communism theme) that was of any value . . . >>

If everything of value was divided up between the people who ran the show, then that would have been the end of public ownership of the means of production, an essential ingredient of communism.  So how in the same sentence can you say that they "pretended to drop the communism theme"when you also state that the means of production in the hands of the state were given over to the individuals who used to run the show?  If they really divided up the remaining means of production between their individual selves, then they dropped communism; if they only pretended to have dropped communism, then they still had communism and the means of production were left in the hands of the state.  So, Kramer, which is it?  Did they give up communism or not?

[Plane]

<<Did you ever stop and consider this:

 
<<The corrupt Communists just became corrupt Capitalists.

<<So even if things changed here likely the corrupt Capitalists would become corrupt Communists.>>

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that there was no change of management, just that the old bosses gave themselves new names.

So if there was no real change at the top, how come the change (according to you, in name only) was followed by skyrocketing crime rates,............et cetra..

     Out in a field a rock looks a lot like just a rock, you don't know what or how many crickets and lizards are there without you turn the rock over.

      Do you think that the population of the USSR was replaced with a bunch of other people during 1989?

      Do you know that Putin was an officer in the KGB?

      Do you know the age of those Russian organised crime gangs?

[Michael Tee]

<<Do you think that the population of the USSR was replaced with a bunch of other people during 1989?>>

Of course not.  The people didn't change, only the system: which explains how, as soon as the system changed, alcoholism and crime were up, unemployment was up, homelessness was up, payroll arrears went WAAAAY up and only one thing - - average life expectancy - - went down.  Same people, different systems:  one of the clearest examples of the superiority of the socialist way of life that anyone could ever ask for.

     << Do you know that Putin was an officer in the KGB?>>

Since we've already agreed (see your first question) that the population of the USSR remained in place during 1989, it follows inevitably that all the people who held some position in the old communist apparatus had new positions to hold in the new capitalist society. Putin included.

      <<Do you know the age of those Russian organised crime gangs?>>

That's an impossible question to answer, because there is a gradient between the organized crime gangs and the new capitalists from the small "biznissmenky" to the oligarchs.  You can't tell where one leaves off and the other begins.

[Plane]

  The educated class is in charge again as it was before , the same guys , they are not burning on the alter of Marx anymore and they are free to get a real education in economics if they want one.

    Was all the benefit of Soviet society illusion and fudged books?

     I don't know first hand , but if I had the chance I would ask one of those guys that graduated from a Soviet university and  is presently in a position of authority with a non soviet government.