Author Topic: Hard day  (Read 3020 times)

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Plane

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Hard day
« on: January 21, 2007, 12:25:44 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq


"...20 American service members were killed in military operations Saturday in the deadliest day for U.S. forces in two years, ..."

This makes this day the third worst overall for American deaths since the start of the Iraq War.

Mucho

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 01:38:23 AM »
This is really only the beginning. Just think how about 15% more can be killed by just increasing them by that amount like your Bushidiot did. BTW- it occurs to me that many of the 20000+ wounded would have been dead in Nam without the medical breakthroughs. We underestimate the Iraqi dead and our might as well be dead as well.

Plane

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 01:43:55 AM »
This is really only the beginning. Just think how about 15% more can be killed by just increasing them by that amount like your Bushidiot did. BTW- it occurs to me that many of the 20000+ wounded would have been dead in Nam without the medical breakthroughs. We underestimate the Iraqi dead and our might as well be dead as well.


I would expect that if we were biger and better prepared the casualty rate woud fall.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2007, 02:05:55 AM »
I would expect that if we were biger and better prepared the casualty rate woud fall.

======================================
Of the 140,000 troops in Iraq now, about 100,000 are what are known as 'fobits', or support troops in Forward Operating Bases, such as within the Green zone and in other cordoned off areas where they cannot be attacked.

If the number of troops that are not 'fobits' increases from 40,000 to 60,000, I would expect more casualties. More targets should result in more casualties.

Of course, they could, and perhaps will, lie about the numbers killed and wounded.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 04:01:45 AM »
Why would you expect more casualtys?

With more support , more frequent patrolls , more rest time and faster respnse to calls ,I would expect casualtys to rise amoung the insurgents , not the American soldiers.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2007, 07:38:28 AM »
With more support , more frequent patrolls , more rest time and faster respnse to calls ,I would expect casualtys to rise amoung the insurgents , not the American soldiers.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The more troops you have out shooting at people, the more battles you will have. The more battles you have, the more casualties on both sides, as well as civilians caught between the two sides. It seems pretty obvious to me, and should even seem "odvious" to you.

More troops have died in Iraq than in Bosnia. Lots more people shooting=lots more casualties.

I do not control this. I only observe.

Just wait and see.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2007, 02:18:04 PM »
With more support , more frequent patrolls , more rest time and faster response to calls ,I would expect casualties to rise among the insurgents , not the American soldiers.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The more troops you have out shooting at people, the more battles you will have. The more battles you have, the more casualties on both sides, as well as civilians caught between the two sides. It seems pretty obvious to me, and should even seem "odious" to you.

More troops have died in Iraq than in Bosnia. Lots more people shooting=lots more casualties.

I do not control this. I only observe.

Just wait and see.

Quite the contrary , the more strongly you patroll the less you tempt ambush.
By your theory halving our numbers would halve our casualties , but to me it seems that weaker forces would loose more battles , and then of course have more battles.

Now if you want to use Clinton style fighting (as in Bosnia), I think that is a valid option , but you will have to stop complaining about collateral damage because aerial bombing is our safest and least refined technique.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2007, 02:39:45 PM »
Quite the contrary , the more strongly you patroll the less you tempt ambush.
By your theory halving our numbers would halve our casualties , but to me it seems that weaker forces would loose more battles , and then of course have more battles.

Now if you want to use Clinton style fighting (as in Bosnia), I think that is a valid option , but you will have to stop complaining about collateral damage because aerial bombing is our safest and least refined technique.

============================================================================
My theory is that if ALL US troops leave Iraq, none will be killed there. I dare you to explain how they can be killed in Iraq if they are not in Iraq.

The more bullets are flying about, the more likely a US soldier or anyone else will stop a bullet.

US troops are not killed in ambushes nearly so much as they are killed by booby trap explosives. They stroll around unaware of the culture and the language of the people around them.

If some Iraqi hollered "drop a large stone on the head of that goofy-looking one NOW" in Arabic, the same goofy-looking American soldier would be clueless about what was said, and would end up under said stone. US troops are unprepared to police Iraq, just as a Iraqi who speaks only Arabic would be incompetent to patrol your street. Even idiot criminals like the ones on COPS would triumph over any policeman with such a huge lack of skills.



The more US troops poke around among booby traps, the more often they will be the boobies that get blown up by them.

I invite you to watch as your inane theory is proven wrong, and more and more Americans will be killed because of Juniorbush's 'surge'.


 =*     +   *    +   &*   +

And now you think that somehow I am causing anyone to die because I am complaining about collateral damage?  MOI?

First (a) show me how I have been complaining about collateral damage from air strikes (because I am unaware that I have ever done so), and (b) tell me in what way this complaining has cause anyone to die.

I suggest that me sitting here typing words onto this computer is ENTIRELY non-violent behavior and has NEVER harmed anyone.

Except the time that my cat clawed me trying to get on my lap. But we have both recovered now.


The worst thing about this war is that it was fought in the first place.
The second worse thing is that it has been fought with such stupendous incompetence at the leadership level.

It is seldom in American history that so few have been allowed to squander so much money and so many lives in such a lamebrained adventure for so long.

The Iran-Iraq War should have been good evidence that people in that part of the world can fight for huge amounts of time against their own interests.

Then there was Vietnam, and the American people should NEVER have elected anyone like Juniorbush and Cheney who approved of the Vietnam War. Not that either of them actually thought it was worth THEM dying in...

« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 02:49:37 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Mucho

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2007, 08:18:48 PM »


Quite the contrary , the more strongly you patroll the less you tempt ambush.
By your theory halving our numbers would halve our casualties , but to me it seems that weaker forces would loose more battles , and then of course have more battles.

Now if you want to use Clinton style fighting (as in Bosnia), I think that is a valid option , but you will have to stop complaining about collateral damage because aerial bombing is our safest and least refined technique.

Iy is small wonder that modern Repubs are not able to win wars: they lack any sense at all. We sent larger & larger forces to Nam and got higher & highert casualties. The more sitting ducks+ the more you hit. It is simple. Bill is a good example of a great military leader. He did what it takes to win and is still a hero in Kosovo. He can walk among the crowd which the Bushidiot will never do in Iraq.

BT

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2007, 08:47:09 PM »
Quote
Bill is a good example of a great military leader. He did what it takes to win and is still a hero in Kosovo. He can walk among the crowd which the Bushidiot will never do in Iraq.

I wouldn't have a problem using helicopters as gunships instead of transport and using more air support on sector clearing missions.


Mucho

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2007, 10:08:27 PM »
Quote
Bill is a good example of a great military leader. He did what it takes to win and is still a hero in Kosovo. He can walk among the crowd which the Bushidiot will never do in Iraq.

I wouldn't have a problem using helicopters as gunships instead of transport and using more air support on sector clearing missions.



Kinda late now . The Bushidiot has already botched everything by his perpetual halfassedness

BT

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 01:18:05 AM »
Quote
Kinda late now . The Bushidiot has already botched everything by his perpetual halfassedness

Never too late to change tactics.

Mucho

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 01:47:31 AM »
Quote
Kinda late now . The Bushidiot has already botched everything by his perpetual halfassedness

Never too late to change tactics.


Nor idiots in charge( none could be a bigger idiot than the Bushidiot)

Amianthus

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 08:01:20 AM »
none could be a bigger idiot than the Bushidiot

One trick pony.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Hard day
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 01:05:00 PM »
<<Quite the contrary , the more strongly you patroll the less you tempt ambush.
By your theory halving our numbers would halve our casualties , but to me it seems that weaker forces would loose more battles , and then of course have more battles.>>

There's obviously got to be a point where the patrol is so big and so well-armed and so mobile that nobody in his right mind would dream of fucking with it.  So theoretically plane would have to be right. 

However all that stuff costs money.  Men, fuel, ammo, logistics.  And while they're out on patrol, the guerrillas hide somewhere and play backgammon.  They'll come back when it suits them.  Remember, they live there.

Why did a right-wing nut like Ollie North, who presumably knows something about military matters, say simply, "More troops, more targets?"  I think because, getting back to the real as opposed to the ideal, the U.S. will not add anywhere near the number of troops required to produce big patrols all over the disputed parts of the country, of a numerical strength which would discourage anyone from attacking them.  The patrols, in other words, will be bigger, but not big enough.  So plane's probably right in the ideal world, but wrong in the real one.

Why not make a maximal, WWII effort and send over the millions of men required to do the job right?  Bomb the shit out of the whole country and kill everyone who resists?  Money or lack thereof.  And moral outrage.  The world supported that kind of effort against moral monsters like Hitler and the Nazis.  It won't support the same type of thing against Third World people who are just fighting off an oil grab on their own resources.  Even the American people won't support it.