Author Topic: Broccoli-gate  (Read 1495 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Broccoli-gate
« on: March 29, 2012, 09:24:23 PM »
Couldn't help but notice the same group of late night & cable comedians taking up the call on the zaniness of Government mandated broccoli, as the justices were quizzing Obama's laywers.  I mean, really, who on earth would believe that the Government would ever come to a point where they're dictating what you can and can't eat......oh wait, we're already almost there.  sorry bad example at trying to be funny. 

ObaminationCare was so saturated with flaws, from completely unrealistic financing to its unconstitutional foundation.  They fact that they pushed this 2700+page behemeth to be voted on before ANYONE could fully read the final copy,  the avoidance of it then being brought forth in committee, for full vetting, I mean so many underhanded tactcs used to pass this, and now the left is cringing at the whole house of cards coming down with a June ruling.  And yes, all of it will get thrown out.  The Judiciary is NOT the Legislative branch.  taking out the main unconsitutional component of the ObaminationCare, as the justices accurately referenced (the sane ones at least) brings about a bill that congress never created, nor envisioned.  It would be new legislation, and since that's not the function of the Judiciary, needs to have it all sent back, and let congress re-write it, so it is constitutional, as that IS their function

But back to broccoli.  Yes, if ObaminationCare passed, as agued & explained by the Solicitor General, Congress would be intergral in montoring and managing everyone's care, since its the citizens' tax dollars supporting it.  As "stewards" of the money, they'd have a feduciary responsibility to minimize costs while maximing care.  Ergo, with the hypothetical courts validation of ObaminationCare, of course they'd be in a position to mandate a better eating pattern.  Perhaps not specifically broccoli, but more along the lines of mandating compliance with food groups.  A certain # of this, and a lesser # of that.  Whatever it takes to better one's health and care.  All given approval by SCOTUS, and properly regulated by your friendly federal government
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 10:43:45 PM »
Shut up and eat your brussels sprouts.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 12:00:48 PM »
Ahhh, the typical response by the left, as epitomized by our "professor".  Well said
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 02:09:40 PM »
ObaminationCare was so saturated with flaws, from completely unrealistic financing to its unconstitutional foundation.  They fact that they pushed this 2700+page behemeth to be voted on before ANYONE could fully read the final copy,  the avoidance of it then being brought forth in committee, for full vetting, I mean so many underhanded tactcs used to pass this, and now the left is cringing at the whole house of cards coming down with a June ruling.  And yes, all of it will get thrown out.  The Judiciary is NOT the Legislative branch.  taking out the main unconsitutional component of the ObaminationCare, as the justices accurately referenced (the sane ones at least) brings about a bill that congress never created, nor envisioned.  It would be new legislation, and since that's not the function of the Judiciary, needs to have it all sent back, and let congress re-write it, so it is constitutional, as that IS their function

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 06:03:18 PM »
"Shut up and eat your brussels sprouts"

This week, the Supreme Court measured Obamacare to see whether it fits within the confines of the Constitution. The big picture is whether the Constitution limits the behavior of the federal government to the plain meaning and historical context of the Constitution, or whether clever lawyers and politicians can interpret language in the Constitution so as to justify whatever Congress wishes to do.

Does the Constitution mean what it says?
Does it limit the federal government to the powers it has delegated to Congress?
Or is it a blank check for Congress to do whatever it can get away with?

One of those delegated powers is the power to regulate interstate commerce. The language in the Commerce Clause authorizes Congress "to regulate" commerce among the states. When James Madison wrote that phrase, he and the other Framers were animated by the startling lack of interstate commerce among the states under the Articles of Confederation. This was the period after the Revolution and before the Constitution when the merchants and bankers who financed the Revolution also controlled the state legislatures. They were both creditors, because they had lent money to the state governments to finance the war, and debtors, because they now controlled the machinery of state government that owed them money.

What did they do?

They were the original corporatists and crony capitalists. They formed cartels to diminish in-state competition, and they imposed tariffs to discourage out-of-state competition. Thus, in order to turn 13 mini-economies into one large economy, and to protect the freedom to trade, Madison used the word "regulate," which to him and his colleagues meant "to keep regular." So, the Constitution delegated to Congress the constitutional power to keep interstate commerce regular by prohibiting state tariffs, and it did so.

But Congress was intoxicated with its new powers, so it began to keep commerce regular by regulating the fares charged by ferries going from Hoboken, N.J., to New York City -- and the Supreme Court said yes.
From there Congress regulated the wages of workers who produced goods that were put onto those ferries -- and the Supreme Court said yes.
Then Congress regulated the wages, working conditions and methods of manufacture of facilities whose goods never moved in interstate commerce, so long as the economic activity generated by the production of those goods had a measurable effect on interstate commerce -- and the Supreme Court said yes.

This jurisprudence has resulted in the courts approving the congressional regulation of
- the thickness of leather in shoes,
- the water pressure in home showers,
- the amount of sugar in ketchup,
- ad infinitum.
Wherever you go in the United States, it is impossible to avoid confronting federal regulation of human behavior unmentioned in the Constitution, but justified by Congress under the Commerce Clause. It will be necessary for the court to put a backstop on this absurd progression of congressional power in order to invalidate Obamacare's individual mandate.

The other line of Commerce Clause jurisprudence that the court will confront started with a farmer growing wheat exclusively for the consumption of his family during the Great Depression, and the feds ordering him to grow less wheat. He resisted that order, and his resistance led to an infamous Supreme Court opinion that upheld the feds' order. That 1942 case stands for the propositions that even infinitesimal economic behavior, even behavior that is not numerically measurable, even behavior that is not of a commercial nature, even behavior that does not move products across interstate lines can be regulated by Congress if, when all the similar behavior in the land is taken in the aggregate, it could have an effect on interstate commerce. This aggregation theory is the most anti-historical, hysterical, disingenuous, convoluted ruling in the court's history. But it is still the law today, and it will be necessary for the court to distinguish or to overrule this case, too, in order to invalidate the individual mandate.

Justice Antonin Scalia reminded his colleagues during oral arguments this week that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it means today what it meant when it was written and ratified.

If Congress can compel you to buy health insurance because that's good for you and for the country's economic health, he asked, can it force you to eat broccoli?

And if it can, what is the value of having a Constitution that was written to limit the government's powers?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 06:11:34 PM »
Does the Constitution mean what it says?
Does it limit the federal government to the powers it has delegated to Congress?
Or is it a blank check for Congress to do whatever it can get away with?
--------------------
Justice Antonin Scalia reminded his colleagues during oral arguments this week that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it means today what it meant when it was written and ratified.

If Congress can compel you to buy health insurance because that's good for you and for the country's economic health, he asked, can it force you to eat broccoli?

And if it can, what is the value of having a Constitution that was written to limit the government's powers?

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 07:37:46 PM »
Just reading Obamacare cruel and unusual punishment

Since the retirement of Sandra Day O'Connor, Swingin' Anthony Kennedy has been the swingingest swinger on the Supreme Court, the big Numero Cinco on all those 5-4 white-knuckle nail-biting final scores. So naturally court observers have been paying close attention to his interventions in the ObamaCare oral arguments. So far he doesn't sound terribly persuaded by the administration's line:

"The government is saying that the federal government has a duty to tell the individual citizen that it must act, and that is different from what we have in previous cases, and that changes the relationship of the federal government to the individual in a very fundamental way."

As John Hinderaker wrote at the Powerline blog, "In that last observation, Kennedy seems to be channeling Mark Steyn." Which is true. As I wrote in National Review only two or three issues back, "I've argued for years in these pages that governmentalized health care fundamentally transforms the relationship between citizen and state in ways that" – and here's the bit Justice Kennedy isn't quite on board with yet – "make it all but impossible to have genuinely conservative government ever again." So I'm naturally heartened to hear him meeting me halfway. This was one of the highlights of a week that a shellshocked Jeffrey Toobin, crawling out from under the rubble of the solicitor general's presentation, told CNN viewers was "a train wreck" for the government's case.

And yet, and yet... If you incline to the view that Obamacare is a transformative act, isn't there something slightly pitiful about the fact that the liberties of more than 300 million people hinge on the somewhat whimsical leanings of just one man? I mean, Kennedy seems a cheery enough cove, but who died and made him the all-powerful Sultan of Swing? "It is a decision of the Supreme Court," explained Nancy Pelosi a few years back in more congenial times for the Democrats. "So this is almost as if God has spoken."

That's not how earlier Americans saw it: "If the policy of the government upon vital questions affecting the whole people is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court," wrote Abraham Lincoln, "the people will have ceased to be their own rulers."

Which they have. Or it would not have come to this.

In February, George Jonas wrote up north that Canadians enjoyed more rights and freedoms in the days before all their rights and freedoms got written down in a big ol' "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" (1982). At this point, many readers will object that the constitutional documents of some effete pansy ninny monarchy like Canada are entirely irrelevant to a strapping butch manly self-reliant republic like America. Three words:

Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Finding herself with a bit of time on her hands, Justice Ginsburg swung by Cairo last month to help out the lads from the Muslim Brotherhood building the new Egypt: "I would not look to the United States Constitution if I were drafting a constitution in the year 2012," she advised them. Instead, she recommended the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the European Convention on Human Rights. That's why the fate of the republic will come down to a 5-4 vote. Because four-ninths of the constitutional court think the American constitutional order is as déclassé as a 2006 BlackBerry.

"There seems to be an inverse relationship between written instruments of freedom, such as a Charter, and freedom itself," mused George Jonas. "It's as if freedom were too fragile to be put into words: If you write down your rights and freedoms, you lose them." That was generally the view of the Britannic part of the English-speaking world until the late 20th century: What's unwritten is as important, if not more so, than what is.

The Constitution of Australia, for example, makes no mention of the office of Prime Minister. The job exists only through custom and convention understood from the United Kingdom, where, likewise, it existed only through custom and convention: "statutory recognition" in London didn't come till 1937 – or over two centuries after dozens of blokes had been doing the job.

By contrast, on the Continent, where many constitutions date all the way back to the disco era (Greece, 1975; Portugal, 1976; Spain, 1978), if the establishment wants to invent a new "right" – i.e., yet another intrusion by government – it goes ahead and does so. If it happens to conflict with this year's constitution, they rewrite it. The United States is the only Western nation in which our rulers invoke the Constitution for the purpose of overriding it – or, at any rate, torturing its language beyond repair.

Thus, in this week's debate on whether Obamacare is merely the latest harmless evolution of the interstate commerce clause, the most learned and highly remunerated jurists in the land chewed over the matter of whether a person, simply by virtue of being born, was participating in a "market."

Had George III shown up at the Constitutional Convention to advance that argument with a straight face, the framers would have tossed aside the quill feathers and reached for their muskets.

A land of laws decays almost imperceptibly into a land of legalisms, which is why America has 50 percent of the world's lawyers. Like most of his colleagues, lifetime legislator John Conyers (a congressman for 47 years) didn't bother reading the 2,700-page health care bill he voted for. As he said with disarming honesty, he wouldn't understand it even if he did:

"They get up and say, 'Read the bill.' What good is reading the bill if it's a thousand pages and you don't have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?"

It would be churlish to direct readers to the video posted on the Internet of Rep. Conyers finding time to peruse a copy of Playboy while on a commuter flight to Detroit. So let's take him at his word that it would be unreasonable to expect a legislator to know what it is he's actually legislating into law. Who does read the thing? "What happened to the Eighth Amendment?" sighed Justice Scalia the other day. That's the bit about cruel and unusual punishment. "You really want us to go through these 2,700 pages? Or do you expect us to give this function to our law clerks?"

He was making a narrow argument about "severability" – about whether the court could junk the "individual mandate" but pick and choose what bits of Obamacare to keep. Yet he was unintentionally making a far more basic point: A 2,700-page law is not a "law" by any civilized understanding of the term. Law rests on the principle of equality before it. When a bill is 2,700 pages, there's no equality: Instead, there's a hierarchy of privilege microregulated by an unelected, unaccountable, unconstrained, unknown and unnumbered bureaucracy. It's not just that the legislators who legislate it don't know what's in it, nor that the citizens on the receiving end can ever hope to understand it, but that even the nation's most eminent judges acknowledge that it is beyond individual human comprehension. A 2,700-page law is, by definition, an affront to self-government.

If the Supreme Court really wished to perform a service, it would declare that henceforth no law can be longer than, say, 27 pages – or, at any rate, longer than the copy of Playboy Congressman Conyers was reading on that commuter flight.

C'mon, Justice Kennedy. Obamacare vs. Playboy: It would be a decision for the ages – and an act of bracing constitutional hygiene.

Commenary
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 08:02:43 PM »
Quote
A 2,700-page law is not a "law" by any civilized understanding of the term. Law rests on the principle of equality before it. When a bill is 2,700 pages, there's no equality: Instead, there's a hierarchy of privilege microregulated by an unelected, unaccountable, unconstrained, unknown and unnumbered bureaucracy. It's not just that the legislators who legislate it don't know what's in it, nor that the citizens on the receiving end can ever hope to understand it, but that even the nation's most eminent judges acknowledge that it is beyond individual human comprehension. A 2,700-page law is, by definition, an affront to self-government.

This is very well said!

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 08:21:31 PM »
100% agreed   
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 09:19:47 PM »
The ACA is not 2700 pages long. That is the size of the "brief" filed by those who want to abolish it. The actual law is at least 1000 pages less.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 11:39:53 AM »
Source
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 01:57:32 PM »
Look it up.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 02:26:01 PM »
Its YOUR claim.  YOU provide it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 06:51:48 PM »
As we can see, obviously now a bogus claim, if the best Xo can do is to ignore sourcing his own claim, and harp on FBI stats, that ironically he also plans on ignoring
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Broccoli-gate
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 11:57:25 AM »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle