Cops Wound 9

[Xavier_Onassis]

If I were a murderer, I would not choose to commit a murder at any police convention. Any murderer would prefer to find a place where there were NO witnesses. Of course, I am not a murderer.

The police at the Empire State scenario could safely assume that any police who were shooting were on their side. Had there been civilians shooting as well, they would have no idea. No one would have been safer. I see no way everyone would not have been more in danger of being shot. The more guns firing, the more bullets in the air, the more likelihood of getting shot.

[Plane]

And yet in the real world that is not how it happens.

Where guns are illeagal only criminals have guns and thus the totral effect of the law removes wepons from the responsible only .

Where guns are strictly forbidden , guns show up in the hand of mischeif.


It is a universal principal , sharks seek bait fish , wolves seek deer, lions look for zebra.
The all seek prey that they overmatch.
The predatory don't waste their time on prey that can realisticly put up a fight.

Humans with bad attitude have the same principal applied, so you do not see people mark their homes as "gun free".

Although thinking again , perhaps the poliice could mark a house as swag heavy and gun free as bait for burgulars?
Would that be entrapment ? To make a house odviously as helpless as a colledge campus?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Where guns are illeagal only criminals have guns and thus the totral effect of the law removes wepons from the responsible only .

Where guns are strictly forbidden , guns show up in the hand of mischeif.

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Rarely. In your mind, but not in reality.

Japan has VERY strict gun laws and very close to NO gun violence at all, and there are many other countries where the same thing is true.

We have lots of guns and lots of gun violence.
\\And again, if there had been a bunch of armed citizens with guns at that Empire State situation, it would NOT have prevented people being wounded. Odds are it would have resulted in more violence.

[Plane]

Where guns are illeagal only criminals have guns and thus the totral effect of the law removes wepons from the responsible only .

Where guns are strictly forbidden , guns show up in the hand of mischeif.

=============================================================\
Rarely. In your mind, but not in reality.

Japan has VERY strict gun laws and very close to NO gun violence at all, and there are many other countries where the same thing is true.

We have lots of guns and lots of gun violence.
\\And again, if there had been a bunch of armed citizens with guns at that Empire State situation, it would NOT have prevented people being wounded. Odds are it would have resulted in more violence.

 

The level of violence in Japan says more about Japaneese habits than their gun laws.
The number of people willing or eager to comitt murder will have a much greater effect than any possible gun law or even any possible gun.
If someone with a gun had never shown up , that shooter in NYNY would have simply walked away , if someone carrying a gun been nearby and visible where he comitted the crime , he might not have tryed .

Note that "NOT" in all caps is your opinion , nothing objective.

[BSB/Hero/Genius/MovieStar]

So plane, we're supposed to go to work packing visible heat? How about church, a .44 magnum maybe? And when you pick the kids up for the day are you carrying a machinegun?

Come on, lets get real.


BSB

[Xavier_Onassis]

All speculation about what MIGHT have happened is ALWAYS an opinion.

I can only offer an opinion about how I think the Sun will come up tomorrow.

BSB is right, most of the time, most sane people are unarmed.

[Plane]

  A sane person will choose to be armed or not depending on his own judgement of the situation.

  A government that makes this difficult for a sane person is insane.

[sirs]

If there had been more civilians at the Empire State Building with guns, I can't imagine how things would have gone any better.

Ummm....how about the killer gets shot before anyone else dies??  One can logically imagine that, given the fact that more lives are saved in using a gun, vs lives lost by one.

The police who are shooting would not know whose side the extra civilian shooters were on.

The shooting would have been over before the 1st cop showed up.  No one's arguing that people should be shooting with the police present   

I don't think that it is fair to blame the police for the number of people wounded, since bullets ricochet and the number of people in the crowd is unmentioned. There will be a hearing with witnesses and what really happened will be better known.

You'll have to forward that to BsB, since I'm not the one criticising how many were wounded by the cops

If there are no guns, there are no shootings, nonetheless.

No, there'd still be shootings, only that they'd be by those already illegally using guns.  All you've done is make the innocent defenseless, while simultaneously stomping on the Constitution.  Bravo

[sirs]

So plane, we're supposed to go to work packing visible heat?

Umm...NO.....that's why its referred to as a carry CONCEALED, as in NOT visible.  THAT's called real

[Plane]

So plane, we're supposed to go to work packing visible heat?

Umm...NO.....that's why its referred to as a carry CONCEALED, as in NOT visible.  THAT's called real

The advantage of conceiled carry is that any sort of violent criminal will have to wo0nder if the guys behind him are armed , and he won't know.

[BSB/Hero/Genius/MovieStar]

"if someone carrying a gun been nearby and visible where he committed the crime"

Hey plane, do you say visible or not? And, if it isn't visible how the fuck would he know if they were carrying? If you ment just another person being visable, NYC hands out gun permits. Hell for all the shooter knew his victim might have been carrying.

You know, you couldn't think your way out of a wet paper bag. All your post are riddled with false assumptions. You start somewhere and just throw bullshit against the wall in support of all your preconceived notions.  Pick up the pace will ya. God damnit!


BSB

[sirs]

So plane, we're supposed to go to work packing visible heat?

Umm...NO.....that's why its referred to as a carry CONCEALED, as in NOT visible.  THAT's called real

The advantage of conceiled carry is that any sort of violent criminal will have to wo0nder if the guys behind him are armed , and he won't know.

BINGO...deterrence....real.  Notice again how die hard leftists are left to throw BS insults, when they can't overcome either FACTS or Common Sense.  Something you can generally count on, in debate

[Plane]

Sorry about the pace, I really can't respond a lot faster.


I see advantages in visible wepons and advantages in concealed ones.

If there had been a cowboy ,with a sixgun on his hip,on that sciene before the crime , that shooter might have considered him a threat , either putting the crime off till tomorrow or shooting the cowboy first.

If on the other hand it was common knoledge that guns are commonly hidden on all sorts of people He would have to worry about the whole number of people there.

As it is he correctly assumed that resistance is rare in New York city, but was incorrect about no one trying to get him caught.

If the guy that snitched on him had followed him a long way before seeing a policeman , might that have failed too?



On the complete other hand , this discussion is becoming moot as cameras become cheaper and computers become smarter. It may not be long before it is hard to commit crimes off camera.  A lot of cameras will often trump a gun when the criminal wants to get away .

[Xavier_Onassis]

A lot of cameras will often trump a gun when the criminal wants to get away .

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Now, there you are onto something, plane.

If there is a hidden camera always watching, that is a far better deterrent to any criminal who wants to get away with his crime than having all sorts of random gun nuts known to be about. A camera kills or threatens no innocent people if used properly.

We have hidden cameras at stoplights here in Miami-Dade County. I see them flash from time to time. I never run a light, but if I see some fool coming up from behind me at 50 mph while I an stopped at a red light, I know that I will try to get out of his way, regardless of the light. I have avoided a couple of accidents this way. In one, I had space enough to angel my car out of the way and the fool crashed into the car that had been in front of me. In another, I saw no one coming and simply ran the light. This was before cameras.  The guy stomped on his brakes and drifted across the intersection and then it looked like his motor stalled. I was half a block away, so I didn't see it well, and I try to avoid rubbernecking lest someone hit me.


Now I try to see where the camera is. I have spotted the flash lens, but never the camera. It is apparently very small and well concealed.

Hidden cameras are a better deterrent UNLESS the assassin plans a suicide mission. Then there is nothing a camera could do, and not much an armed citizen is likely to do.

[sirs]

Sorry about the pace, I really can't respond a lot faster.

I see advantages in visible wepons and advantages in concealed ones.

The problem here Plane, is that a visible weapon paints a huge big bullseye on you, by a would be bad guy, intent on doing something nefarious.  That's why police officers are payed the big bucks.  A concealed weapon is the deterrent, as you earlier accurately referenced.

Of course if Anti Constitutionalists had their way, bad guys would be in heaven, knowing no one had a gun, and they could take their illegally aquired one, and just open up, with impunity.  Perhaps when the police arrive, maybe there'll only be 20 killed