Turkey says the hell with stalling Obama & confronts Syrian/Iran Axis

[Christians4LessGvt]

Turkish F16s force Syrian flight from Moscow to land
Ankara: Syrian air space no longer safe

DEBKAfile Special Report

October 10, 2012


Turkish Air Force

Turkish air force jets forced a Syrian 35-passenger Airbus A320 bound from Moscow to Damascus  to land in Ankara Wednesday night, Oct. 10, on suspicion it was carrying arms. Its cargo compartment was subjected to checks by Turkish officials. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu spoke of information that it may be carrying "certain equipment in breach of civil aviation rules."

At the same time, the Turkish foreign ministry released this statement: "All civilian flights in Syrian airspace have been stopped since it is not safe."  TRT television said a Turkish plane that had already taken off for Saudi Arabia made a detour and landed at a Turkish airport.

debkafile's military sources: By forcing down the Syrian airbus, Ankara has signaled Damascus that it will henceforth stop civilian air traffic flying through Syrian air space. There is still a question about whether Turkey will extend this aerial blockade to Syrian military air traffic. Furthermore, Iranian civilian aircraft have been running an almost daily airlift of military and logistical equipment from Tehran to Damascus. The new Turkish step, to which Damascus has not yet responded, may portend a clash between Turkey and Iran in the skies over Syria.

Our sources add: The Erdogan government, in defiance of the Obama administration's wishes, looks like moving towards imposing its own unilateral protected no-fly zone over Syria to break out of the stalemate of the 18-month civil war.

They do not rule out the possibility that more anti-Assad governments, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Persian Gulf emirates may send air strength to back up Turkey's opening move.
To discuss this, Saudi Intelligence Chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan paid an unannounced visit to Doha and went straight into a meeting with the Qatari ruler, Emir al-Thani.

Stopping a Syrian plane from Moscow was also a Turkish message to the Russians to stay out of the conflict now in full spate between Ankara and Damascus and not interfere in any no-fly zone. The Russians have not so far commented on the incident.

For the past two days, Turkish Chief of Staff Gen. Ozel Necdet, has been touring his forces along the Syrian border to inspect their readiness for a full-scale clash with Syria. Military sources in Ankara also disclosed that at least 25 F16 fighter jets had been transferred to the Diyarbakir air base near the Syrian border.

It now transpires that this transfer was planned as part of the operation to close Syrian air space.
Earlier, Wednesday, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced that American troops are helping build a headquarters in Jordan to bolster its military capabilities in case violence spills over from Syria.

http://www.debka.com/article/22427/Turkish-F16s-force-Syrian-flight-from-Moscow-to-land-Ankara-Syrian-air-space-no-longer-safe

[Xavier_Onassis]

I fail to see why you say that Obama is stalling. Turkey has interests with regard to Syria different than the US, and has a right to do as it sees fit. I doubt that this will disturb anyone in the US government much at all.

[Plane]

We have treaty obligations to Turkey , and in this case our intrests might also align.

[Xavier_Onassis]

NATO binds all its members to regard an attack on one as an attack on all.

The issue seems to be whether the shells landing on Turkey were a deliberate attack on Turkey by Syria, or simply landed in Turkey by error. It would be unwise for the Syrian government to deliberately attack Syria.

It is difficult to ascertain intent.

[Christians4LessGvt]

I fail to see why you say that Obama is stalling. Turkey has interests with regard to Syria different than the US, and has a right to do as it sees fit. I doubt that this will disturb anyone in the US government much at all.

I assure you if Turkey gets into a hot war with Syria/Iran it will "disturb" many in the US government.....and thus Turkey and the US do have some common interest in these events.
Obama ain't going to do crap until he is forced to.....

[Xavier_Onassis]

I do not actually want the US to send troops to invade Syria.

Being as Syria has an ongoing conflict with US ally Israel, and the US government claims (incorrectly and unwisely) that "there is no daylight between the US and Israel", and therefore approves of Israel annexing the Golan Heights, the US cannot be seen as any sort of impartial party. The US cannot impose a new government on Syria, and therefore should hang far back.

US troops could become hostages in Syria by some rebel faction opposing Assad. Then what?
Turkey has every right to defend itself. I do not believe that Turkey needs NATO troops or that it is likely to request them.

[Christians4LessGvt]

I do not actually want the US to send troops to invade Syria

Nor do I.
US groud troops in Syria would be insanity.
We can have a huge imapct in other ways.
Think Kosevo, think Libya...basically no ground troops....but HUGE IMPACT.

However I am still very torn over the Syrian situation.
On one hand Assad is a monster, but a worse monster could emerge.
On another hand I like opposing Iran & seeing an Iranian allie brought down,
but again....if an al-Qaeda type group takes over Syria that's not helpful either.
I am hopeful the real power players in this conflict (US, Saudis, Gulf States, France, ect...)
have a long term alternative better than my 2 scenarios. (Assad or al-Qaeda)

[Plane]

   I heard today that the Syrians are dropping cooking gas tanks with explosives on them to blow down neighborhoods. This improvasation must mean exaustion of stocks .

     The first few shells that fell on Turkey were ignored , they very well could have been accidental, then a Turkish Family was caught in one of the blasts so there is now public outcry to answer .
     At present excchanges of artillery is a dayly occurance and there is no possibility that it is accidental.

     Turkey is not in an emergency, Syria is . If the Turks decide to invade a devided and exausted Syria , they will cover the best part of it like a wet blanket on the first day. The best reason not to is that Turkey doesn't need to own Syria , which will need major repairs soon whichever side wins.

    The NPR report today was exellent , try to catch the podcast.

http://www.npr.org/2012/10/11/162726221/concerns-build-over-violence-in-syria

[Xavier_Onassis]

NPR as usual, is very good at getting the facts and explaining them.

I don't think that it is completely clear that Syrians are deliberately trying to hit targets in Turkey. Never assume malice when incompetence is sufficient. Also, some Syrian firing those shells might not actually WANT to kill other Syrians. In any war, there will be soldiers who find themselves compelled to fire, but who do not wish to kill anyone. Dying for Assad is not all that worthy a cause.